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Handling Mature Content Without Breaking Immersion

mod development tutorial brainstorming aran whitehand dialog coding mature content

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#1 cmorgan

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 05:30 PM

Is it possible?

Back In The Day®, before the FlirtPack, Fade To Black™ handled most things. Even with Aerie getting pregnant, the before and after talks were very un-explicit. From BAERIE,

CODE
IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 356 // from: 351.1
SAY ~Please, <CHARNAME>...the time is right and I must speak to you of this.~ /* #31623 */
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~(sigh) Fine. What is it you wish?~ /* #31624 */ GOTO 352
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~It will have to wait, Aerie. Good night.~ /* #31625 */ GOTO 357
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 357 // from: 356.1
SAY ~I...I see my wishes have no bearing on your moods. As...as you wish. I will sleep by myself tonight and from here on. Good night, <CHARNAME>.~ /* #31627 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("AerieRomanceActive","GLOBAL",3)
RestParty()~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 358 // from: 355.0
SAY ~C-come close to me, then, <CHARNAME>. Let me feel your hands on my skin...let us lay together so I may experience your love and become a woman at last...~ /* #31632 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~RestParty()~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 359 // from: 355.1
SAY ~I...don't know what love is, <CHARNAME>. But...maybe it would be better to wait until all of this is over. The thought of laying with a man frightens me a little, I must admit...~ /* #31633 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 360
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 360 // from: 359.0
SAY ~Stay with me for the night, then, <CHARNAME>, and hold me to you. I...don't want to be alone, and I so desperately need to be near you...~ /* #31634 */
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~As you wish...that I am more than willing to do.~ /* #31636 */ DO ~SetGlobal("SleptAerie","GLOBAL",0)~ GOTO 363
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Forget it, Aerie...I'm not interested in someone who is so needy.~ /* #31637 */ GOTO 361
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 361 // from: 360.1 355.3 355.2
SAY ~So you send me away with...with your cruel words. I...I thought I loved you...and yet you cut me open without hesitation. I...should have known better, I suppose.~ /* #31679 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 362
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 362 // from: 361.0
SAY ~Very well, <CHARNAME>...I shall go and sleep by myself and console myself that it is better that I never allowed one such as you to touch me. I...shall not trouble you further.~ /* #31680 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("AerieRomanceActive","GLOBAL",3)
RestParty()~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 363 // from: 360.0
SAY ~You are sweet to be so patient with me, <CHARNAME>. Let us sleep, then.~ /* #31684 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("SleptAerie","GLOBAL",0)
RestParty()~ EXIT
END

IF WEIGHT #23 ~Global("LoveTalk","LOCALS",48)
Global("SleptAerie","GLOBAL",0)
!StateCheck(Player1,STATE_SLEEPING)~ THEN BEGIN 364 // from:
SAY ~So...you are awake at last? I have been...watching you sleep for some time, now. It calms me, watching you...and it gave me time to think.~ [AERIEB1] /* #31685 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 365
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 365 // from: 364.0
SAY ~I've been...thinking about last night. You were right, of course...it isn't the right time to experience love when we are always in danger of perishing.~ /* #31686 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 366
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 366 // from: 365.0
SAY ~I was so eager to experience everything new that I...did not think. Thank you for respecting me. I...I love you...and I want our first time together to be something special.~ /* #31687 */
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I love you, too, Aerie...and I agree.~ /* #31688 */ GOTO 367
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Yes, well...let's just continue our travels, shall we?~ /* #31689 */ GOTO 368
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~You're out of your mind, Aerie.~ /* #31690 */ GOTO 370
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 367 // from: 366.0
SAY ~Let us go, then and find this Irenicus. Once this is over, I want to experience everything with you. I...I never thought I would find something... better than flying. Thank you.~ /* #31691 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("AerieRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2)~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 368 // from: 366.1
SAY ~Of course, <CHARNAME>. Let's...finish your quest, and then we can see where we stand. And where we can go from there, yes?~ /* #31692 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 369
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 369 // from: 368.0
SAY ~In...in case I die...or in case we part ways...I just wanted to tell you, <CHARNAME>, that I never thought I would find something better than flying. But I have...and thank you.~ /* #31693 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("AerieRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2)~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 370 // from: 366.2
SAY ~I am? I had thought you had cared for me. But...perhaps you kept me away because...because you did not care enough for me. I had not thought of that.~ /* #31694 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 371
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 371 // from: 370.0
SAY ~I am too quick to assume, <CHARNAME>...and I have much to learn. I wish you would have been gentler with me, but you have taught me much, and I thank you.~ /* #31695 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 372
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 372 // from: 371.0
SAY ~Let us just...continue on your quest. I shall trouble you no further...and will look to further my experience elsewhere.~ /* #31696 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("AerieRomanceActive","GLOBAL",3)~ EXIT
END

IF WEIGHT #24 ~Global("LoveTalk","LOCALS",48)
Global("SleptAerie","GLOBAL",1)
!StateCheck(Player1,STATE_SLEEPING)~ THEN BEGIN 373 // from:
SAY ~So...you are awake at last? I have been...watching you sleep for some time, now. It calms me, watching you...and it gave me time to think.~ /* #31697 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 374
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 374 // from: 373.0
SAY ~You...have made a woman out of me, <CHARNAME>. I love you more deeply than I can say and can only thank you for what you have done for me.~ /* #31698 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 375
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 375 // from: 374.0
SAY ~But...at the same time...I cannot help but think that things need to be slowed. I am so full of emotion...I want to experience too much and am doing it all too quickly.~ /* #31699 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 376
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 376 // from: 375.0
SAY ~I feel overbalanced, <CHARNAME>. Quayle would never approve of this, I think.~ /* #31700 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 377
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 377 // from: 376.0
SAY ~My heart clenches at the thought, but we must stop ourselves from going down this path. I need to...to find out more about myself...before I can attach myself to another. I...hope you understand.~ /* #31701 */
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I do...but maybe you need to find your own way, Aerie.~ /* #31703 */ GOTO 378
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~If that's what you want, there is nothing I can do.~ /* #31704 */ GOTO 379
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~No, Aerie! I love you!~ /* #31705 */ GOTO 381
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~No, I don't understand! Why are you doing this?!~ /* #31707 */ GOTO 383
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 378 // from: 385.0 377.0
SAY ~If...if that is what you think I should do...then perhaps I must. I...I shall miss you, <CHARNAME>. I shall always hold you dear in my heart.~ /* #31712 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 382
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 379 // from: 377.1
SAY ~Oh, please don't be sad, <CHARNAME>. I shall remain with you and fight by your side... this quest of yours is too important for me not to help you with it.~ /* #31717 */
IF ~~ THEN GOTO 413
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 380 // from: 413.0
SAY ~But, come...a new day awaits us, <CHARNAME>. Let us...let us see what it holds.~ /* #31720 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("AerieRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2)~ EXIT
END

With some variations, not much else happens in any of the other Canonical BioWare™ crew. We find more explicit depictions of activity in the chaste writings in those Vampire stories currently popular among the youth - or Panshin's coming of age story, or actually network TV in the US.

Then, modding happened, and even early romances had more direct PG13 content, or more. The list and variations are huge now in the community, with decidedly mature content available (by mature, we are defining it the US way: you can kill thousands of critters in horrible ways, steal, beat people up, spy, break laws, even show body parts in various states of dismemberment and corruption - but no showing of naked body parts of any kind other than men's bare chests and women's bare backs from the waist to the neck, and no description of what happens when the aforesaid body parts start doing what comes naturally in any way, shape, or form.

Now, the debate on this is fun, and has been done to death. I would ask that we drop the whole "discuss whether or not this is ok to death" part, and focus on the player experience. For this topic, we are looking at being as player-friendly as possible. We want the folks who are happier with the level of the posts in the flirting and Moonlit Swordfight threads (though I have some question in my mind if that gets a bit too graphic in places), pushing the boundaries of the original game without wandering into Viconia Bathing Flirts or Romantic Encounters. What we are looking at is a way of not breaking in-game immersion, but at the same time letting folks who want Romantic Encounters-level romance to be a part of their gaming experience.

We have some choices, the most obvious being "don't write stuff that goes farther than

QUOTE
~[PC] My love, spend the night with me. Be mine, and I will be yours.~
~[ARAN] Aye, I would gladly be wi' you, now, an' any time you want. I done fallen for you, an' I am yours.~

RestParty()

~[ARAN] Now, sleepyhead, wake up. That were a wonderful, beautiful night.~
~[PC] Yes, it was.
~[PC] No, it wasn't.
~[PC] Perhaps. With some training, you will become a wonderful lover.
~[PC] You have made a woman out of me.
~[PC] I love you.
~[PC] I wonder what all the fuiss is about. It was ok, but awkward.
"

OK, possible, well done in several mods, and it avoids the question of appropriate player choice by giving no options on the level of intensity or graphic nature of the game, but allowing some responses on the PC's part that will be pretty obvious to those with experience. And as it is a mature game and Aran is a mature mod, we can figure that it matches NCIS or regular afternoon TV, as long as the watcher is not watching DeGrassi Junior High or other fare that explores pretty heavy stuff - or watches a soap opera - basically, we can say "Hey. This is ok for most players of the game to watch".

Of course, that would be too easy.

While writing stuff for RE was embarrasing at times, and definitely way beyond my comfort level, it was fun. And exciting. And probably the toughest challenge I have ever had writing. To be blunt, without help from really, really good friends, it would have never, ever happened. But that fun factor comes back in - we know from modern mature games and mods that blend over into more explicit content, folks are interested. So, I want to give it a shot with Aran, too. But how do I support moving to the next level without making folks who are not interested in having more risque materials suddenly find themselves in a territory that they don't like?

Well, option 2 is to make a separate component that adds more mature stuff. That way, at install, a player can choose to play a more vanilla-ice-cream game, push the envelope with more risky-sounding responses, and not worry. A player who would much prefer to play about figuring which part of Aran should be painted with aforesaid vanilla-ice-cream, well, they add in that content. This is the Romantic Encounters solution - if it is not to your taste, don't install it, and you never have to be worried.

This, by the way, is the best one from a general coding perspective. You can always set a talk to supercede another, or change a variable that can be evaluated, and add it on in another layer - a quick example, kept PG13 for decorum and modesty,

CODE
IF ~Global("MyLoveTalk","GLOBAL",14)~ THEN BEGIN lessexplicitstate
SAY ~[ARAN] (His lips are warm and alive, caressing yours gently.)~
++ ~[PC] Oh Aran... hold me closer. I want to be with you tonight, warm in your arms.~ DO ~SetGlobal("MyLoveTalk","GLOBAL",15)~ EXIT
END


Global("geivememoredescription","GLOBAL",0)

Then, in your "allow more adult interaction/depiction" component addition, either set a cutscene to run or add options using EXTEND_BOTTOM on your states (tricky, but possible with STATE_WHICH_SAYS), or simply add a greater weight to the more explicit talk -
CODE
IF WEIGHT #-1 ~Global("MyLoveTalk","GLOBAL",14)~ THEN BEGIN moreexplicitstate
SAY ~[ARAN] (His lips are warm and alive, caressing yours gently.)~
++ ~[PC] Oh Aran... I happen to have some vanilla ice cream... shall we see how it melts?~ DO ~SetGlobal("MyLoveTalk","GLOBAL",15)~ EXIT
END


Since the state added afterwards advances the variable too, and it will now run at the top of the stack, you should be able to basically depreciate your old state with the new state.

But that means a separate component, and no chance for a player to change their mind mid-stream. Given that folks do mega-installs these days, that can be a serious pain.

So, how else can we do it?

Well, berelinde came up with a really great suggestion -
QUOTE (berelinde)
You script a "flirt" to fire before any of these become available where Aran says something bordering on, but not quite, NC17. Give the PC two reply options, and only two reply options "I don't appreciate that kind of language." and "I like a man who speaks his mind... especially if it's naughty." Variable set and no immersion broken in the process. You use that variable as a trigger for the mature content.


Side note - get a modding partner with whom to bounce ideas. It is a great, great experience.

Now, I am having trouble with getting the message across strictly in-game, but playing with this idea (which means I can write things more naturally, then basically shut down reply options or specific floating talks or even entire branches of dialog, or even better, the player can choose at any point in time to enable or re-enable or shut down stuff that is not to their taste) - like the Anomen Romance conflict runs :


For PID enabling/disabling,

CODE
+ ~Gender(Player1,FEMALE) OR(2) Global("c-aranrom","GLOBAL",1) Global("c-aranrom","GLOBAL",2) Global("c-aranmature","GLOBAL",0)~ + ~[PC] I like it when you flirt with me, especially when it is naughty. You should be more explicit.~ + DO ~SetGlobal("c-aranmature","GLOBAL",1)~ + c-aranmature_content // replaced with # when integrated

+ ~Gender(Player1,FEMALE) OR(2) Global("c-aranrom","GLOBAL",1) Global("c-aranrom","GLOBAL",2) Global("c-aranmature","GLOBAL",1)~ + ~[PC] I like it when you leave much of our flirting discreet.~ + DO ~SetGlobal("c-aranmature","GLOBAL",0)~ + c-aranregular_content // replaced with # when integrated

IF ~~ c-aranmature_content
SAY ~[ARAN] I think I understand, eh? I may take some liberties or not, but either way you won't mind some o' my language bein' a bit graphic.~
IF ~~ THEN EXIT
END

IF ~~ c-aranregular_content
SAY ~[ARAN] I think I understand, eh? I may take some liberties or not, but either way you want to leave more to your imagination, rather than me spell it out for you.~
IF ~~ THEN EXIT
END


No flirt starts before FriendTalk 3, so after FriendTalk2, some conversation to set this up first. This is where it gets tricky - and where suggestions are welcome. Warning - if they are posted here, they are likely to be shamelessly integrated style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

The challenge is to find a way of making it clear to the player in a flirt that:

1. by choosing reply 1, the FadeToBlack™ is there, and there will be as close to BioWare™ as possible. That means some of the Moonlight Swrdfight and some of the already in-place flirts will be screened out.

2. by choosing reply 2, the FadeToBlack™ is there, because I would stink at writing pron, but materials at the level of the more adult encounters in RE (Chanelle, Renal, Sheri, etc.) would become available along romance pathways.


[By the way, if you are interested in assisting with both feedback and spell/grammar/proofing, I am on target to have the first full Bath At An Inn scene ready tomorrow evening. I am a chicken, and do not feel comfortable with posting things in this open forum that go as far as this particular bath interaction does, so please PM me if you are interested in assisting. Brutal, honest feedback is welcome, but don't ask if you have found RE makes you uncomfortable. By the time the mod is in alpha, we will have a way of making sure you don't have to read it if you don't want to, but in its current state I can't shield stuff.]

Edited by cmorgan, 18 November 2011 - 08:54 PM.

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#2 Ardanis

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 12:57 AM

So, you basically ask for a proper non-4th wall-breaking ingame wording of 'I want graphic scenes'/'I don't want graphic scenes'?

1) I've changed my mind/Don't be so shy. If someone wants to watch us making out, then let them see, it just makes the whole thing more exciting.
2) I appreciate your attention but others looking make me feel uncomfortable. Would you mind do it so that they don't see the stuff going on?

by mature, we are defining it the US way: you can kill thousands of critters in horrible ways, steal, beat people up, spy, break laws, even show body parts in various states of dismemberment and corruption - but no showing of naked body parts of any kind other than men's bare chests and women's bare backs from the waist to the neck, and no description of what happens when the aforesaid body parts start doing what comes naturally in any way, shape, or form.

*Snicker*

Retired from modding.


#3 KIrving

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 10:49 PM

Is it possible?

Probably not. The question is though do you want to be everything to everyone or do you want to write Aran as you hear him in your head?

Personally I feel that, except the nwn's mod 'A Dance with Rogues', no mod really gets as graphic as many novels can be in their description of sexual content/behaviour.

We have some choices, the most obvious being "don't write stuff that goes farther than

~[PC] My love, spend the night with me. Be mine, and I will be yours.~
~[ARAN] Aye, I would gladly be wi' you, now, an' any time you want. I done fallen for you, an' I am yours.~

RestParty()

~[ARAN] Now, sleepyhead, wake up. That were a wonderful, beautiful night.~
~[PC] Yes, it was.
~[PC] No, it wasn't.
~[PC] Perhaps. With some training, you will become a wonderful lover.
~[PC] You have made a woman out of me.
~[PC] I love you.
~[PC] I wonder what all the fuiss is about. It was ok, but awkward.

"

Ack. I'm trying to be good here and I like your writing but can I have an option not to have talks that.....um...um...scary.

OK, possible, well done in several mods, and it avoids the question of appropriate player choice by giving no options on the level of intensity or graphic nature of the game, but allowing some responses on the PC's part that will be pretty obvious to those with experience. And as it is a mature game and Aran is a mature mod, we can figure that it matches NCIS or regular afternoon TV, as long as the watcher is not watching DeGrassi Junior High or other fare that explores pretty heavy stuff - or watches a soap opera - basically, we can say "Hey. This is ok for most players of the game to watch".

Of course, that would be too easy.

Anyone following the development of this mod, which you have also clearly stated as such on the first page, would know that it will contain material of an adult nature. I'm also of the opinion that there are people out there that deliberately download and play mods that have adult content, just so they can complain about the adult content.
I haven't seen much in the way of warnings about sickly sweet content and yet have inadvertently stumbled upon it and never been the same again.(you can't unsee it :thumbsup: ) Warnings are very important things which are not taken seriously enough. :)

While writing stuff for RE was embarrasing at times, and definitely way beyond my comfort level, it was fun. And exciting. And probably the toughest challenge I have ever had writing.

You did a really good job of it too and made it possible to play many different pcs, with different responses.

But how do I support moving to the next level without making folks who are not interested in having more risque materials suddenly find themselves in a territory that they don't like?

This is where I would wonder why they chose this mod in the first place. Being more than a touch rude, opinionated and, possibly inappropriately, touchy feely seems to be a part of Aran's personality. I think I understand where you are coming from though and the option 2, separate component/tracks for more explicit content, is probably the best way to go. Okay, I need to finish reading things properly as it seems the latest suggestion by berelinde is a good idea too.
I think Domi did something with the IWD2npcs that allowed some adult content to be set by the player on the fly. I'm sure that with one of the characters, depending on what option was chosen by the player in a conversation, the npc/pc could behave in a more suggestive way. I think.

I never understand the acceptance of violence over adult content. I'm all for being able to play a game, as an adult, and decapitate, eviscerate and consummate all in the one game. (not necessarily all to the same npc though.)

Now, I am having trouble with getting the message across strictly in-game, but playing with this idea (which means I can write things more naturally, then basically shut down reply options or specific floating talks or even entire branches of dialog, or even better, the player can choose at any point in time to enable or re-enable or shut down stuff that is not to their taste)

Sounds really good.

[By the way, if you are interested in assisting with both feedback and spell/grammar/proofing, I am on target to have the first full Bath At An Inn scene ready tomorrow evening. I am a chicken, and do not feel comfortable with posting things in this open forum that go as far as this particular bath interaction does, so please PM me if you are interested in assisting. Brutal, honest feedback is welcome, but don't ask if you have found RE makes you uncomfortable. By the time the mod is in alpha, we will have a way of making sure you don't have to read it if you don't want to, but in its current state I can't shield stuff.]

I'm game. :hm:

Edited for typos...heh.

Edited by KIrving, 11 February 2010 - 11:07 PM.

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wanted to hold on to the feeling
of the stretch in the sun,
and our breathlessness as we run
to the beach endlessly,
as the sun creeps up on the sea." Lille Lisa Hannigan

#4 Creepin

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 01:32 AM

I'm sorry for possible offtopic, but what are you referring to as "Viconia Bathing Flirts"? Is it content of Flirt Pack or something else?

On topic:

Probably not. The question is though do you want to be everything to everyone or do you want to write Aran as you hear him in your head?

This. Just do what's appealing to you and your opinion of good mod, and if someone else will like is as well consider it a free bonus :thumbsup:

Edited by Creepin, 12 February 2010 - 01:33 AM.


#5 berelinde

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 02:13 AM

Probably not. The question is though do you want to be everything to everyone or do you want to write Aran as you hear him in your head?

This. Just do what's appealing to you and your opinion of good mod, and if someone else will like is as well consider it a free bonus :thumbsup:

Quoted for truth. There will be people who will download this mod (or any other) just to find something to complain about. I figure whatever makes 'em happy.
Must. Write. Faster.

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#6 cmorgan

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 10:34 AM

1) Don't be so shy. If someone wants to watch us making out, then let them see, it just makes the whole thing more exciting.
2) I appreciate your attention but others looking makes me feel uncomfortable. Would you mind do it so that they don't see the stuff going on?


I like these. They make it pretty obvious but can be played in character.

Ack. I'm trying to be good here and I like your writing but can I have an option not to have talks that.....um...um...scary.


:thumbsup:

Yeah, I should make it much more obvious when I am doing a joking section and when I am not - that was definitely a joke schematic! A better example that shows it was humorous might be:

~[PC] Sleep with me.~
~[ARAN] Sure.~

RestParty()

~[ARAN] That were a wonderful, beautiful night.~
~[PC] Yes, it was.


Or even better:

SAY ~[ARAN] So, cutie, interested in a little roll in th' hay? Mayhap untie some ties, fool around a bit?~
++ ~[PC] Nay, verily, forsooth, wry wenching wends windward. I am willing to have your willful wayward wishes with womanly wonders wrought, while we weep winsomely!~ + [Fade To Black]
++ ~[PC] Yo. Word. Your place, or mine, or right here? Floor looks kind of cold...~ + [Fade To Black]
++ ~[PC] No nudity in my contract. Yours, well, get a better agent next time. I'm calling in my body double - see you tomorrow!~ + [Fade To Black]
++ ~[PC] Roll in the hay? Oh, you mean... ok. I have five minutes to kill before the evening news comes on and I have to shut down. Let's see what you got.~ + [Fade To Black]
++ ~[PC] I would rather be run over by a Monster Truck™.~ EXIT
++ ~[PC] Oh, the horror! I have been propositioned by a computer character! No, no, I cannot look... are his bits covered or are all his bytes unsigned?~ EXIT
++ [PC] Well, that depends. Is this LoveTalk17, the Last Time We SpeakĀ®, or is this just a fun little interlude? Because I have this really great thing going with Faren and Tsjuatha, and Gavin is waiting above the CC...~ + [Fade To Black]


[Fade To Black]

CHAIN
~[ARAN] Hey, wake up, sleepyhead. Was it as good for you as it was for me?~
~[IMOEN] Heya, <CHARNAME>, I just finished slaughtering an orc by cutting out his entrails, see the lovely bloodspatter, it's... EWWWW! GROSSS! I saw a flash of skin! Put some clothes on, come on! ~
~[MINSC] Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes! No - mine, not theirs!~
~[AERIE] Hey, watch that elbow. How is a girl supposed to learn the birds and the bees with all this chatter? What did I miss?~
~[JAHEIRA] I think you both need to do some supplemental research. Here - the Kinsey Report, a nice little book to help with some alternate positions, and a few herbs. By the way, you could be a little less vocal next time. We had to fend off several hordes of Gibberlings and the camera crew from "To Catch A Predator". The "America's Funniest Home Videos" crew paid well enough, though, so we let them roll tape for a few minutes.~
END
++ ~[PC] Hmmm. Was it as good... well, do you really want an answer to that? Because all I saw was a great big picture of a bed in an inn, a mouse, and then here you are, asking me about how "it" was. Somehow, I think I missed something.~
++ ~[PC] So, shall we name the baby Fredrica, or Eloise? Whoa, you should see the color drain from your face...~
++ ~[PC] Medic!~
++ ~[PC] Why didn't I just go to the library and get Lady Chatterly's Lover?~


I'm all for being able to play a game, as an adult, and decapitate, eviscerate and consummate all in the one game. (not necessarily all to the same npc though.)

[joke] Now *that* would be one heck of an accomplishment - all three to the same NPC? Well, so we have a romanceable dragon who has the Orb of Mighty Spelling imbedded in his head, and the rod that supports it in his belly... and he usually stays in human form... hmmm.... [/joke]

I'm sorry for possible offtopic, but what are you referring to as "Viconia Bathing Flirts"? Is it content of Flirt Pack or something else?


Flirt Pack, I think - the most graphic depiction outside of Imoen Romance and RE, I am pretty sure, run on one of Viconia's pathways. It is written well, too, so it has bigger impact than most. Too dark for my tastes (that would be a multiple-level play on words, if you know the scene.)

@ the idea of write as heard in head, do what you feel as a modder, etc., in above posts:

I am lucky in that I am writing him for fun at the code and word level, pushing boundaries. I am perfectly ok with pushing the 'companion' status and straying from BioWare™ standards, but I do get bogged down when it comes to sleeping arrangements. Probably because it ends up in public, rather than on my own machine.

But point taken on all sides - I always say "do your thing", and then come here and start sliding towards the "everything to everyone" side of things. He is supposed to provide new, interesting, and different, is posted as a mature mod, and I suspect I am just projecting my own nervous energy about tackling how to be more graphic and remain tasteful (two highly subjective terms in the first place).

Edited by cmorgan, 12 February 2010 - 10:38 AM.

I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. - Douglas Adams

#7 RavenBlack

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 11:02 PM

[By the way, if you are interested in assisting with both feedback and spell/grammar/proofing, I am on target to have the first full Bath At An Inn scene ready tomorrow evening. I am a chicken, and do not feel comfortable with posting things in this open forum that go as far as this particular bath interaction does, so please PM me if you are interested in assisting. Brutal, honest feedback is welcome, but don't ask if you have found RE makes you uncomfortable. By the time the mod is in alpha, we will have a way of making sure you don't have to read it if you don't want to, but in its current state I can't shield stuff.]


*drifts in* Are you still looking for proofreaders for this? :suspect:

#8 cmorgan

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:56 PM

OK, with a caveat, I am going to put a sample up. The caveat is that there is probably a line I have crossed in this set, so if you comment, please use line numbers.

If you are reading a topic about adult material, you probably are not afraid of a little Romantic Encounters level depiction, but just in case, the dialogs here are designed to explore doing things that break the teen rating of the game, and probably the boundaries of decent taste. So stop reading, and go have fun elsewhere, not clicking on the attached file. It isn't pron (i hope), but it does allow PC to indicate some specific things that may cross boundaries.

/* From Within Inn Flirts: Looking Teen NC-17+ Content, Innuendo but no completely graphic description */
Thanks to berelinde, KathStoneDog, Jastey, and several other behind-the-scenes folks for feedback and recheck on earlier versions.

OK, deciding on an implementation. The standard implementation of "levels of" anything (in this case, intimacy) is to set a global directly. But in the clouds of dialog we already have, the nightmare is tracking variables and not revising history by accident. So, if in one dialog we kiss and set V = 1, and the next we hit the bedchamber and set v = 4, and the next we kiss and set v = 1, we have a problem. Still, one way to implement is to use a check for the global level and only elevate it if the new setting is less than or equal to the new value. The first dialog plays with that idea.

<<see text file dialog one>>

/* Walking At Night Flirt: Moonlight Teen NC-17 Content, Innuendo but no description */

The second choice to implement of "levels of intimacy" avoids tracking the main variable in favor of a "master variable" that is set and reset through .bcs. We can set V = 1, and the next we hit the bedchamber and set v = 4, and the next we kiss and set v = 1, but it doesn't matter because there is a scrip block constantly running on Aran's script that takes that information and converts it into a "level" variable across all dialogs and actions. At this point, it might be easier to reconvert things based on this idea, as we can set "c-aransex" on the fly anywhere in any dialog just as-is, without creating a whole ton of different exit states that internally re-evaluate "c-aransex". Basically, this transfers the work of evaluation from dialog to .bcs. The second dialog plays with that idea.

block in C-ARAN.BCS, C-ARN25.BCS
/* look for incrementing relationship to kissing */
 IF
	 InParty(Myself)
	 !StateCheck(Myself,CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
	 GlobalLT("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",1) // = 0
	 Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",1) // kissed...
	 Gender(Player1,FEMALE)
 THEN
	 RESPONSE #100
		 SetGlobal("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",1) // we kissed. 
END

/* look for incrementing relationship to kissing + touching */
IF
	 InParty(Myself)
	 !StateCheck(Myself,CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
	 Global("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",1) // we kissed. 
	 Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",2) // kissed and touched
	 Gender(Player1,FEMALE)
 THEN
	 RESPONSE #100
		 SetGlobal("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",2) // we kissed and touched
 END
 
 /* look for incrementing relationship to petting */
 IF
	 InParty(Myself)
	 !StateCheck(Myself,CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
	 Global("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",2) // we kissed and touched
	 Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",3) // we went further, but not the big one
	 Gender(Player1,FEMALE)
 THEN
	 RESPONSE #100
		 SetGlobal("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",3) // we went further, but not the big one
END

 /* look for incrementing relationship to full intimacy */
 IF
	 InParty(Myself)
	 !StateCheck(Myself,CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
	 Global("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",3) 
	 Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",4) // shared everything
	 Gender(Player1,FEMALE)
 THEN
	 RESPONSE #100
		 SetGlobal("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",4) // shared everything
END
Each of these blocks is screened by the current intimacy level vs the activity result of dialog option. So when Global("c-aranintimate","GLOBAL",3) is set, setting and resetting "c-aransex" to 0, 1, 2, or 3 will not re-register on the intimacy level at all. And at the end of each dialog, the scripts will update the globals as needed, so as a writer/coder I don't have to constantly keep track of whether this or that action was actually accounted for - I just set a var for whatever just happened in that line, and let the engine sort the whole thing out.

This one may have crossed a line.

<< see second dialog implementation>>

NOTE: the file has moved farther down the thread in response to edits from reader feedback.

Edited by cmorgan, 04 December 2010 - 09:13 AM.

I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. - Douglas Adams

#9 Luridel

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:02 AM

Looking good so far! A couple things-

Trying to minimize parenthetical text through PC responses is one thing and works well in some cases - particularly for 'show, don't tell'/dictating exactly how much control the player has over what the PC's actually getting into... but I'd love an option or two more for a PC who isn't quite so, ehm, vocal during that sort of thing.

The shy PC responses seen to disappear (lines #450-#466) past a certain point of intimacy. Particularly in #450-#460, since these seem to be 'moving up a level' options, it might be nice to have a 'kind-of-hesitant-but-being-carried-away-regardless' sort of response, too? You've got your 'sorry Aran, I'm going to back out after all' covered already, but all of the 'okay, I'm ready to move forward' options seem really... confident, I guess? I dunno.

Another case where using speech instead of parenthesis seems off: line #330 seems incredibly awkward. It's such a great intentional setup (okay, I'll pretend to trip, you'll catch me, right, RIGHT?) that having her -announce- it like that spoils the effect entirely. At least, that's just how it comes off to me.

Line #481 and #491 - perhaps that deserves a response from Aran? #481 in particular made me cringe - at the least, a little consideration for her feelings/sympathy at that point might be nice.

#10 cmorgan

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 06:56 AM

Great feedback - I appreciate it! I have an hour, so let me try some revisions -
1. opportunity for less vocal
2. 'kind-of-hesitant-but-being-carried-away-regardless' - I am confusing PC making a decision to move forward boldly with PC *being* bold - just because a character wants to move forward does not necessarily mean she is going to have a complete personality change.
3. #481, #491 - recheck for areas where Aran is behaving out of character because his author is trying to tighten up code - he may act like a complete jerk at times, but he is unlikely to intentionally be cruel to PC. In the best case scenario, he is desperately in love with her. in the worst case scenario, he is morbidly fascinated with her and wants to bed her. Either way, he is not likely to


I think a more in-depth treatment of this would be branching off by personality style instead of cobeing all bases in 6 or 7 displayed options, but I can't do that and finish the mod, so I need to fid a way to make this set of constraints work. I'll try raising the limit to 8, and see what I can do :)
I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. - Douglas Adams

#11 cmorgan

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:07 AM

OK, edits. I am having a heck of a time doing the "hesitant shy" responses; in this draft I tried to make the action text additions be useful for that PC as well, but I am not sure that they don't sound confident, too. I will take a second pass at this tomorrow, and see what I can come up with.

As a coding note, I really like not tying the global setting down to exit states, as it gives much more range in terms of same words, different meanings.

edited - same line numbers as original file, with added ones (A,B,C, etc.) : Attached File  follow_up_adult.txt   60.06KB   298 downloads

(note to folks who helped with earlier versions - I appreciate your work, and unless you specifically give permission, I will *not* put specific usernames with stuff like this; I appreciate the help, and know that sometimes folks want to remain anonymous. I should have asked B, KSD, and J, too.)

I am still working on how to does with the "PC has declared her inexperience" idea. I know in RL, sometimes that means bold action when the decision is made, and other times it means "wait". I just can't seem to et things into the right position so it continues to make sense - it could all run off of intimacy = less than three, but it means 8 or 9 or even 10 replies extra, and Walls Of Text actually *decrease8 the sense of intimacy. Handing out a full menu of options for Friendtalks or LoveTalks seems to work ok, but little interludes suddenly grow into full-scale talks. I have a way out, but need feedback -

I could shut down most of the content above kissing and touching [2] for these interludes by screening for the character declaring that she is a virgin; then allowing progress in intimacy only through specific LoveTalks. It would mean less flexibility for those players, but it has an added playing possibility - it matches more standard BioWare™ intimacy treatment, allowing a player to flirt and do all sorts of things but making it only possible to move into the bedchamber after a set number of LoveTalks.

Edited by cmorgan, 04 December 2010 - 09:22 AM.

I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. - Douglas Adams

#12 Luridel

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 10:58 AM

Huge improvement there, in my mind. Much better on all counts. Looking good!

#579 "waht" -> "what"

#13 MissBehave

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:03 PM

I'm sure my comments from the peanut gallery no longer have any effect on the mod because the writing is surely finished by now, but if you are at all concerned that the content of that link is too mature, please don't be. Or maybe I have a smutty mind. That is a possibility. But in all honesty, I had expected it to be quite a bit more graphic than it was. I personally enjoyed your Renal contribution to RE, as well as Cernd, Laran and Bjornin, off the top of my head, and I wouldn't mind Aran's 'heavy stuff' to be along those same lines. I also find nothing at all offensive about the more intimate parts of Gavin. But maybe that's just me. :blush:

Edited by MissBehave, 15 March 2013 - 06:04 PM.




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