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#16 Hurricane

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:07 PM

Thank you for addressing my questions and working through the list. I'm just gonna comment real quickly.

  • Dispel/resist values of 0 and 2 are functionally equivalent, since both can't be dispelled and bypass MR.
  • The timing in an EFF file is, I believe, overridden by the effect calling it.
  • I believe the target in an EFF file behaves the same way, but this is something I need to double-check.

Got it.

Mind you though: At least for the ability effects, I felt we should include the setting of timing=1 and target=2 because of preceding behavior: The change of macedisr.eff as a global effect into the Fixpack-introduced cddisr.eff and macedisu.eff as ability effects was derived from the effect having timing=1 and target=2, thus signalling what an ability effect should look like as opposed to a global effect (timing=2, target=0). Now that we are transforming the remaining damage effs to ability effects, we can simply make sure they are all homogenous by adding timing=1 and target=2 to this
COPY_EXISTING "%eff%.eff" override
      WRITE_LONG  0x10 12           // change to damage
      WRITE_SHORT 0x20  0           // normal
      WRITE_SHORT 0x22  "%damtype%" // damage type
      READ_LONG   0x60 "dam"        // read and move
      WRITE_LONG  0x60 0            // from here
      WRITE_LONG  0x1c "%dam%"      // to there
part of the effing effs code and be done with it.

amul18.itm: Wolfsbane Charm
The only opcode that can provide a selective AC bonus is 219, which is hardcoded to be a +2 bonus. And there's no way to solve the stacking bonus--for weapons we can move the damage to the melee header and be done with it, but there's no way to do it here.

Thank you for clarifying.

blun23.itm: Bone Club
I didn't notice anything amiss here. I think as long as the value from the IDS file is 0, I think it catches all values from the IDS file (which means everything).

I'm sorry, I don't understand you here. I am talking about the global effect undhit1.eff here (the thac0 bonus), and yes, this is not related to the effing effs. undhit1.eff is supposed to grant the +1 thac0 bonus against undead but is not doing so because its IDS target is wrong: It looks up EA.ids ("2") to arrive at Ally ("4") when it should be looking up GENERAL.ids ("3") to arrive at Undead ("4"). I've tested this in-game: The thac0 bonus against undead is not working.

dagg09.itm: Silver Dagger
Another punt here, as this is also unused in BG.

Okay, so for BGT, does that mean that BGT should fix the bug independently, while it will not be resolved by the Fixpack?

#17 CamDawg

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:34 AM

Mind you though: At least for the ability effects, I felt we should include the setting of timing=1 and target=2 because of preceding behavior: The change of macedisr.eff as a global effect into the Fixpack-introduced cddisr.eff and macedisu.eff as ability effects was derived from the effect having timing=1 and target=2, thus signalling what an ability effect should look like as opposed to a global effect (timing=2, target=0). Now that we are transforming the remaining damage effs to ability effects, we can simply make sure they are all homogenous by adding timing=1 and target=2 to this

COPY_EXISTING "%eff%.eff" override
	  WRITE_LONG  0x10 12		   // change to damage
	  WRITE_SHORT 0x20  0		   // normal
	  WRITE_SHORT 0x22  "%damtype%" // damage type
	  READ_LONG   0x60 "dam"		// read and move
	  WRITE_LONG  0x60 0			// from here
	  WRITE_LONG  0x1c "%dam%"	  // to there
part of the effing effs code and be done with it.

True enough; this is added. Everything will get target 2 and timing 1.

blun23.itm: Bone Club
I didn't notice anything amiss here. I think as long as the value from the IDS file is 0, I think it catches all values from the IDS file (which means everything).

I'm sorry, I don't understand you here. I am talking about the global effect undhit1.eff here (the thac0 bonus), and yes, this is not related to the effing effs. undhit1.eff is supposed to grant the +1 thac0 bonus against undead but is not doing so because its IDS target is wrong: It looks up EA.ids ("2") to arrive at Ally ("4") when it should be looking up GENERAL.ids ("3") to arrive at Undead ("4"). I've tested this in-game: The thac0 bonus against undead is not working.

Oh, duh. I was looking at the 177 in the club, not the eff itself. Yes, you're right, this is fixed as well.

dagg09.itm: Silver Dagger
Another punt here, as this is also unused in BG.

Okay, so for BGT, does that mean that BGT should fix the bug independently, while it will not be resolved by the Fixpack?

I do agree with you that it makes more sense with its BG behavior (+1 dagger, gets an extra +3 damage/thac0 vs. lycans) and, for that matter, same with the Wolfsbane Charm. I don't mind fixing unused resources, but only when something is clearly wrong. In this case I'd rather leave it to the mods that actually use this since there is some gray area. It looks like BGT does use the BG descript, but lycnhit3 still needs its probability fixed and lycndam3 needs to be moved/altered like the rest of the effs here. amul18 on BGT appears to be working properly as it did in BG. (My BGT install is modded, so it's possible these are wrong on a base BGT install and mods fixed them instead of BGT itself.)

I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.


#18 CamDawg

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:21 AM

Oh, and one last note--the Baldurdash GTU already changes the Wolfsbane Amulet and Silver Dagger back to their BG descriptions.

hamm06.itm: Dwarven Thrower

- The ranged ability requires its own effect in order to do missile bonus damage (same as Azuredge).
- hamm06.eff has target = 0, should this be 2?
- hamm06.eff has timing = 2, should this be 1?

Additionally, I think the description needs to be touched up slightly with respect to the +8 bonus damage. The "Statistics" state "Damage: 2D4 + 3, +8 damage to giants and ogres", which according to the traditional way of denoting bonus damages (see Root of the Problem and all the others) would mean a bonus of +5. However, this time the bonus damage is also mentioned in the item's story text, explicitly saying "additional +8 damage", thereby defining the bonus damage to be understood as separate from the 2D4+3 base damage, and this is also reflected by hamm06.eff doing 8 damage. For the sake of clarity, I would therefore suggest to do one of two things: Either add the word "extra" in the damage listing to make that distinction (see Flame of the North for instance), or change it to say "2D4 + 3, +11 damage to giants and ogres" like all the other weapons.

I've made the change for missile damage, and the description in the BD GTU. Since it's a little borderline, I'll let Wisp decide on inclusion in the GTUL.

reaver.itm: Unholy Reaver (+5 damage vs. good-aligned creatures)

- The ability effect calling dam5.eff uses dispel/resistance = 1. Should this be 0?
- dam5.eff has damage type = magic, this must be slashing if we apply the "bonus dmg type = base dmg type" rule.
- The bonus damage is missing from the description.

After some testing, the dispel/resistance doesn't have any untoward effects, so we're good. The damage type should remain as magic--in this case this was the selection of the developers and in the absence of other evidence we shouldn't mess with it. The item is not available to the player since it's only carried by one creature (gith03) who won't drop it so the description doesn't matter--it also provides charm immunity to the bearer, which is also not mentioned.

rods04.itm: Rod of Smiting

No issues, just a Fixpack remark: The transfer of smitgol1.eff from global effect to ability effect was implemented in an earlier version of the Fixpack. The corresponding code is located somewhere among the other item file fixes. Since the procedure is exactly the same as for the effing effs, the fix should instead be integrated into the effing effs code where it now belongs.

I'm always loathe to remove code that's been out in the wild and working, even when there's a better way to do it--see the number of places Fixpack still zeroes probabilities instead of the newer (and better) effect deletion macros. If we ever modernized Fixpack we could probably cut the tp2 down to 1/4 of its current size--and introduce a score of new bugs in the process. :)

sw1h03.itm: Kondar

Concerning cdsw1h03.eff, doppdam.eff:
- The switching of lycandam.eff to cdsw1h03.eff somehow doesn't work for me. cdsw1h03.eff is created but not used.
- The effs have target = 0, should this be 2?
- The effs have timing = 2, should this be 1?

Concerning lycanhit.eff, dopphit.eff:
- The thac0 bonus vs. shapeshifters is missing from the item's description.

With respect to the thac0 bonus, we can either add it to the description or remove both lycanhit.eff and dopphit.eff from the weapon in order to match the current description. Given that the effs have always been present in both BG1 and BG2, my take is that the thac0 bonus does belong to the weapon. Ergo I say we keep the effs and update the description to include the thac0 bonus vs. shapeshifters.

Yep, the new 177 was still pointing to the old eff, which is fixed. The description now reflects the extra +2 to-hit vs. lycans.

I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.


#19 CamDawg

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:01 PM

sw1h18.itm: Sword of Balduran

Concerning lycndam4.eff:
- The eff currently is still opcode 179 because it was forgotten in the cd_effing_effs array. ;)

Additionally, the bonus stats (both damage and thac0) were stripped entirely from the item's description in BG2 for no reason. See the BG1 description to restore the values.

lycndam4 has been added to the array, but like the Silver Dagger I'm not too worried about this since it's unused in BG2--it still lists the prof as 'Large Sword'. :)

sw1h24.itm: Flame Tongue
Concerning trolld1.eff:
- Currently, trolld1.eff is still a global effect. It must be added to the effing effs patch code.
- Wrong IDS target: The second parameter (referenced IDS file) is 5, this must be 4.

Concerning trollh1.eff:
- Wrong IDS target: The second parameter (referenced IDS file) is 5, this must be 4.
- Bugged target: trollh1.eff has target = -1.

Concerning the description:
- Bonus against "fire creatures" is plain wrong. The BG1 description is correct (only cold-using creatures).
- All thac0 bonuses are missing.
- Hence, the correct description is:

THAC0: +1 bonus, +2 vs. regenerating creatures, +3 vs. cold-using creatures, +4 vs. undead
Damage: 1D8 + 1, +2 vs. regenerating creatures, +3 vs. cold-using creatures, +4 vs. undead

This is fixed.

sw1h31.itm: Daystar

Oh, Daystar. It wouldn't be a Fixpack release if we didn't do something to you, Chromatic Orb, or Jaheira's romance.

The original setup for this was that the extra evil damage was slashing (since it came via 179) and the undead double damage was magic. To preserve the original intention we've got four scenarios:
  • 1d8+2 slashing at +2 thac0 for non-evil, non-undead
  • 1d8+4 slashing at +4 thac0 for evil, non-undead
  • 1d8+2 slashing, 1d8+2 magical at +2 thac0 for non-evil undead
  • 1d8+4 slashing, 1d8+4 magical at +4 thac0 for evil undead
Fortunately, this is how it's behaving at present. I went ahead and cleaned up daystar1.eff though.

I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.


#20 CamDawg

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:04 PM

sw1h32.itm: Dragonslayer

- sw1h32c.eff has parameter3 = 2, this must be 0.

Done.

sw1h62.itm: Foebane +3

Description: Same problem as with the Dwarven Thrower. The "Damage: 2D4 + 3, +6 damage vs. undead, ..." implies that the bonus is only +3 when comparing this description to the other weapons. Change it to either "+6 extra damage vs. ..." or "+9 damage vs. ...". Alternatively, Foebane could also display the damage bonus separately under "Combat Abilities", same as similar items like the two Purifiers, Runehammers, Carsomyrs, or Maces of Disruption.


sw1h63.itm: Foebane +5

- Same description problem as Foebane +3 above: "Damage: 2D4 + 5, +6 damage vs. ..." implies +1.

Done.


wamace.itm: Jerrod's Mace

Concerning damacea.eff:
- damacea.eff has Dice Sides = 8, this must be 0.

Concerning damaceb.eff:
- Bugged target: damaceb.eff has target = -1.
- damaceb.eff has Dice Sides = 8, this must be 0.
- damaceb.eff has timing = 1. Shouldn't this be 2 b/c it's a global effect?

Description: Same problem as with the Dwarven Thrower. Current display:

THAC0: +2 bonus, +5 vs. demons
Damage: 1D6 + 3, +5 vs. demons


What it should look like:

THAC0: +2 bonus, +7 vs. demons
Damage: 1D6 + 3, +8 vs. demons

The target for damaceb.eff is addressed, as is the descript. The dice size don't matter since the dice num is zero.

I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.


#21 Hurricane

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:00 PM

dagg09.itm: Silver Dagger
Another punt here, as this is also unused in BG.

Okay, so for BGT, does that mean that BGT should fix the bug independently, while it will not be resolved by the Fixpack?

I do agree with you that it makes more sense with its BG behavior (+1 dagger, gets an extra +3 damage/thac0 vs. lycans) and, for that matter, same with the Wolfsbane Charm. I don't mind fixing unused resources, but only when something is clearly wrong. In this case I'd rather leave it to the mods that actually use this since there is some gray area. It looks like BGT does use the BG descript, but lycnhit3 still needs its probability fixed and lycndam3 needs to be moved/altered like the rest of the effs here. amul18 on BGT appears to be working properly as it did in BG. (My BGT install is modded, so it's possible these are wrong on a base BGT install and mods fixed them instead of BGT itself.)

Alright, I agree now about the unused resources. And you're right, BGT of course fixes those item descriptions that got messed up in BG2, so having the Fixpack do the same is kind of stupid when those items are not seen in-game without BGT installed.

hamm06.itm: Dwarven Thrower
I've made the change for missile damage, and the description in the BD GTU. Since it's a little borderline, I'll let Wisp decide on inclusion in the GTUL.

That's fine.

reaver.itm: Unholy Reaver (+5 damage vs. good-aligned creatures)

- The ability effect calling dam5.eff uses dispel/resistance = 1. Should this be 0?
- dam5.eff has damage type = magic, this must be slashing if we apply the "bonus dmg type = base dmg type" rule.
- The bonus damage is missing from the description.

After some testing, the dispel/resistance doesn't have any untoward effects, so we're good. The damage type should remain as magic--in this case this was the selection of the developers and in the absence of other evidence we shouldn't mess with it. The item is not available to the player since it's only carried by one creature (gith03) who won't drop it so the description doesn't matter--it also provides charm immunity to the bearer, which is also not mentioned.

About the description: I expected you would say that. :p
About the magic damage: I was thinking about this case as an example where we changed magic bonus damage to normal bonus damage and it seemed to be the same here. However I reckon now that ax1h10.eff was actually introduced by the Fixpack, not by Bioware, so your point about dam5.eff is valid of course. In terms of game mechanics though, this does mean that a good-aligned creature which happens to have some magic damage resistance actually takes less of the bonus damage, right? It's just a little odd, seeing that the damage is dealt in melee combat by striking a blow with a weapon, and the creature suffers the normal damage but not the bonus damage.

rods04.itm: Rod of Smiting
I'm always loathe to remove code that's been out in the wild and working, even when there's a better way to do it

I understand. :)

sw1h18.itm: Sword of Balduran
lycndam4 has been added to the array, but like the Silver Dagger I'm not too worried about this since it's unused in BG2--it still lists the prof as 'Large Sword'. :)

Yup, got it, same case as dagg09.

Oh, Daystar. It wouldn't be a Fixpack release if we didn't do something to you, Chromatic Orb, or Jaheira's romance.

Ha! You got that one right. :D
Again, I understand about the respect for developer intent concerning the magic damage now. But as with dam5.eff, this may be "weird" in some situations with resistances.


And for everything else I didn't quote: just thanks. :)

#22 CamDawg

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:59 AM

reaver.itm: Unholy Reaver (+5 damage vs. good-aligned creatures)

- The ability effect calling dam5.eff uses dispel/resistance = 1. Should this be 0?
- dam5.eff has damage type = magic, this must be slashing if we apply the "bonus dmg type = base dmg type" rule.
- The bonus damage is missing from the description.

After some testing, the dispel/resistance doesn't have any untoward effects, so we're good. The damage type should remain as magic--in this case this was the selection of the developers and in the absence of other evidence we shouldn't mess with it. The item is not available to the player since it's only carried by one creature (gith03) who won't drop it so the description doesn't matter--it also provides charm immunity to the bearer, which is also not mentioned.

About the description: I expected you would say that. :p
About the magic damage: I was thinking about this case as an example where we changed magic bonus damage to normal bonus damage and it seemed to be the same here. However I reckon now that ax1h10.eff was actually introduced by the Fixpack, not by Bioware, so your point about dam5.eff is valid of course. In terms of game mechanics though, this does mean that a good-aligned creature which happens to have some magic damage resistance actually takes less of the bonus damage, right? It's just a little odd, seeing that the damage is dealt in melee combat by striking a blow with a weapon, and the creature suffers the normal damage but not the bonus damage.

Azuredge originally used the Mace of Disruption effs, which were also 179, so the bonus damage has always been slashing/missile. Magic damage is actually resisted by fewer creatures than most melee damage, so I suspect the inverse will more often be true--using Daystar against most skeletons will get your slashing damage halved but the magic damage will be in full effect.

I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.


#23 Hurricane

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:19 AM

Ah yes, those slashing-resistant skeletons. I guess it does make sense then.

#24 Wisp

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

Since it's a little borderline, I'll let Wisp decide on inclusion in the GTUL.

"+8 extra damage" is fine by me.

#25 Hurricane

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:09 AM

So is this how we do it, you implement the corrections and I have to find the new errors you put in along the way? :p

Comment preceding the patch code
Again, the Fixpack addresses the problem with opcode 179, not 178 (first line, the rest is correct).

hamm06.itm: Dwarven Thrower
cdhamm06.eff (missile) is assigned to the melee attack while hamm06.eff (melee) is assigned to the ranged attack.

sw1h63.itm: Foebane +5

Damage: 2D4 + 5, +6 damage extra vs. ...

Seriously? :D
gtul.tra is fine though.


And now, moving forward, here's some remaining stuff that needs to be done.

amul18.itm: Wolfsbane Charm
The present description in Fixpack's gtu.tra has the same wrong stats as the vanilla BG2 description. Instead of thac0/AC +1, it must be:
THAC0: +2 bonus vs. Lycanthropes
Damage: +2 bonus vs. Lycanthropes


blun10.itm: The Root of the Problem
monstdam.eff, undeddam.eff, giandam.eff have target = 0 due to their globalfx past in BG1, but are not automatically adjusted like the other effs because they already are ability effects in BG2. For homogeneity, correct manually by expanding their special treatment:
// effs for root of the problem
COPY_EXISTING ~giandam.eff~  ~override~
              ~monstdam.eff~ ~override~
              ~undeddam.eff~ ~override~
  WRITE_LONG 0x1c 2 // should be doing two extra damage, not three
  WRITE_LONG 0x60 0 // param3 should be 0
  WRITE_LONG 0x14 2 // preset target
  BUT_ONLY

sw1h03.itm: Kondar
Unlike the description updates to the other items, which are merely clarifications, the change to Kondar's description is a necessary correction, i.e. setup.tra material.

sw1h24.itm: Flame Tongue
- In gtu.tra, the damage is 1d8 + 2, +2 vs. ..., this must be 1d8 + 1, +2 vs. ...
- Like Kondar, the correction to the description was meant for setup.tra, not just gtu/gtul.

sw1h31.itm: Daystar
daystar1.eff is changed to be an ability effect outside the effing effs. For homogeneity, we need to update its target and timing there:
// daystar damage vs. evil undead fixes, pt. 2 (see sw1h31.itm, daystar2.eff)
COPY_EXISTING ~daystar1.eff~ ~override~
  WRITE_LONG  0x10        177 // use eff file
  WRITE_LONG  0x1c          3 // against mask_evil...
  WRITE_LONG  0x20          8 // ...from align.ids
  WRITE_ASCII 0x30 ~daystar2~ // then actually go to another +2 damage
  WRITE_LONG  0x38          0 // blank leftover dice num
  WRITE_LONG  0x3c          0 // blank leftover dice size
  WRITE_LONG  0x60          0 // blank leftover param3
  WRITE_LONG  0x14          2 // preset target
  WRITE_LONG  0x24          1 // timing: instant/permanent

Correctly handle the remaining global effects
All thac0 bonuses are global effects, and global effects are supposed to have target = 0, not target = 2 like the ability effects. Hence, when debugging the target = -1 for trollh1.eff and damaceb.eff, it should be set to 0. From this piece,
// wrong target, ids for burning earth's troll damage/thac0
COPY_EXISTING ~trolld1.eff~  ~override~
              ~trollh1.eff~  ~override~
  WRITE_LONG 0x14 2 // preset target
  WRITE_LONG 0x20 4 // race.ids
  BUT_ONLY
remove the target line (trolld1.eff gets set to 2 in the array). Then expand and adjust the fix to damaceb.eff accordingly (and include correcting the other thac0 bonuses with odd values while we're there):
// thac0 bonuses (global effects): wrong targets and/or odd timings
COPY_EXISTING ~damaceb.eff~  ~override~ // invalid target (-1)
              ~trollh1.eff~  ~override~ // invalid target (-1)
              ~undhit1.eff~  ~override~
              ~evilhit2.eff~ ~override~
              ~equal09.eff~  ~override~ // timing = limited
              ~equal10.eff~  ~override~ // timing = limited
              ~equal11.eff~  ~override~ // timing = limited
              ~equal12.eff~  ~override~ // timing = limited
              ~equal13.eff~  ~override~ // timing = limited
              ~equal14.eff~  ~override~ // timing = limited
              ~equal15.eff~  ~override~ // timing = limited
              ~equal16.eff~  ~override~ // timing = limited
  WRITE_LONG 0x14 0 // target: none
  WRITE_LONG 0x24 2 // timing: instant/while equipped
  BUT_ONLY


#26 Hurricane

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

Next round: release candidate 2. We're almost done with the effing effs.


// wrong target, ids for burning earth's troll damage/thac0
COPY_EXISTING ~trolld1.eff~  ~override~
              ~trollh1.eff~  ~override~
  WRITE_LONG 0x14 2 // preset target
  WRITE_LONG 0x20 4 // race.ids
  BUT_ONLY
Trust me, as I said there is no need to include the setting of target = 2 here because trolld1 (damage bonus, ability) gets set to target = 2 in the effing effs array and trollh1 (thac0 bonus, global) now gets set to target = 0 in the global effects batch below.


// wrong target
COPY_EXISTING ~damaceb.eff~  ~override~
  WRITE_LONG 0x14 2 // preset target
  BUT_ONLY
Please remove this one entirely. damaceb (thac0 bonus, global) gets set to target = 0 (not 2) in the global effects batch now.


// wrong target for bone club's +1 thac0 vs undead
COPY_EXISTING ~undhit1.eff~  ~override~
  WRITE_LONG 0x14 2 // preset target
  WRITE_LONG 0x1c 4 // undead from
  WRITE_LONG 0x20 3 // general.ids
  BUT_ONLY
You added target = 2 here, I don't know why. Please revert that addition. undhit1 is a global effect from blun23 and correctly receives target = 0 via the new global effects batch. You probably confused this with my request to change the target of the damage effs of blun10, which still remains:

blun10.itm: The Root of the Problem
monstdam.eff, undeddam.eff, giandam.eff have target = 0 due to their globalfx past in BG1, but are not automatically adjusted like the other effs because they already are ability effects in BG2. For homogeneity, correct manually by expanding their special treatment:

// effs for root of the problem
COPY_EXISTING ~giandam.eff~  ~override~
              ~monstdam.eff~ ~override~
              ~undeddam.eff~ ~override~
  WRITE_LONG 0x1c 2 // should be doing two extra damage, not three
  WRITE_LONG 0x60 0 // param3 should be 0
  WRITE_LONG 0x14 2 // preset target
  BUT_ONLY

This still has to be implemented.


sw1h24.itm: Flame Tongue
- In gtu.tra, the damage is 1d8 + 2, +2 vs. ..., this must be 1d8 + 1, +2 vs. ...

This is also still missing.


hamm06.itm: Dwarven Thrower
I've made the change for missile damage, and the description in the BD GTU. Since it's a little borderline, I'll let Wisp decide on inclusion in the GTUL.

"+8 extra damage" is fine by me.

That gtul update still needs to be included as well.

#27 Wisp

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:30 PM

hamm06.itm: Dwarven Thrower
I've made the change for missile damage, and the description in the BD GTU. Since it's a little borderline, I'll let Wisp decide on inclusion in the GTUL.

"+8 extra damage" is fine by me.

That gtul update still needs to be included as well.

Done locally, though I used "additional" instead, as that is what the rest of the description calls it.

#28 aVENGER_(RR)

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:29 AM

All thac0 bonuses are global effects, and global effects are supposed to have target = 0, not target = 2 like the ability effects.


Are we absolutely sure about this? I.e. does in-game testing confirm this?

I seem to vaguely recall that "fixing" the global effects in a similar manner at one time resulted in the bonus not being applied at all. I may be mistaken though, hence the in-game test suggestion.

#29 Hurricane

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:17 AM

I am exclusively talking about opcode 178 effs (and opcode 179 before we changed those to ability effects) being applied as global effects to an item via opcode 177. I'm sure other types of global effects require all kinds of different target parameters, and that's probably what you remember, but I am 100% sure on this one. Just look at amul18 and all weapons that are using those opcodes. You find that the vast majority of opcode 178 effs that are attached to items as a global effect via opcode 177 have target = 0 (none) and timing = 2 (while equipped), and I've tested the corresponding weapons extensively in-game.

All we do is make those few remaining thac0 bonuses with odd targets/timings have the same target = 0 and timing = 2 as their other fellow opcode 178 effs. Needless to say I have just retested the items in question again after the changes in RC2. It's all good.

#30 devSin

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

Target should be irrelevant (it's inherited from the "Use EFF file" effect rather than read from the EFF resource). That's why the EFF files sometimes look wonky (they're just unused values, so they come from whatever other resource the designer copied it from and didn't bother to change).



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