[Poll] SoD banters via script VS dialogs

[jastey]

For me this is the same - I mean, BG - not BG1 or BG2, just BG.

This will lead to confusions. BG1 and BGII where so different, engine-wise, you cannot put them into one box and call it "BG". Or maybe I am a modding dinosaur and BGII/BGT is seen as the "old BG" standard now?

[Mirandel]

Well, you are And I mean it with admiration and respect to your knowledge and huge experience.

 

It's just the kind of situation with modder's view vs player's view: modder sees the coding, player - the resulting feature. So what if coding was different? There was a feature to pause the game on dialog execution same for both games. And if the poll is about the feature - for player it's more logical to call it "BG feature", not even "BG2 feature, differently coded and partially presented in BG1".

The second question is whose life the feature should make easier - coder's or players...

[GrimLefourbe]

To be fair, dinosaurs are pretty cool.

[jastey]

*ROAAARRR*

 

To the question: in general, players' lifes are easier if coders' lifes are easier - my experience. Because it's the only way to ensure mods will be updated and made compatible with new engine patches quickly. (my 2c)

[Meaningless]

The only things I really hated from all (new?) EE changes are sometimes the GUI (at parts it looks crap, far from well done), the reduction of font size in starting menus (which I hope can be reverted somehow), and principally those "sprite outlines" that makes creatures cartoonish with the strong black contour (that thing is HIDEOUS/HERESY and comes checked by DEAFULT! My head almost exploded when I saw that).

I appreciate when something can change and twist itself and still feel, kinda, connected to itself. Take the sprite outline for example, if it was inside the context of a "quest" or somesuch where the group is transported to another dimension where visuals are different, and the outline is used in that dimension, I would probably find it incredibly cool! But as a "default change" for the entire game? F*** that!!

Of course that is just me, no deep reason to dislike the alternate bantering, but since taste is subjective and some people may feel afronted by it (like I feel for the sprite outlining) it would be best if there was an option to "traditionalize" for those who strongly dislike banters. However I'm not in the group that feels such a thing is essential or should be default instead of an option, so voting to keep Vanilla.

[GrimLefourbe]

I don't dislike banters but sometimes pausing the game to go through the banter is annoying, it overrides move commands so one or more of the characters stop, it takes time to go through while the "text above head" option let the npcs banter while walking some long distances. If I want to take a better look at what they're saying, I can always pause the game and read the chat. I definitely prefer the new way because it is more flexible. I think ideally mods should learn to use both when they are most appropriate.(Having a dialog that pauses the game instead of non pausing banters insists that it's important)

 

I don't think it needs to be all or nothing but if I had to choose, i'd go for all SoD banters so i'm happy if there's a component to do that.

[Mike1072]

One reason mods have never used SoD-style banters is because they are only effective if all the lines can be voiced. Obviously that's not possible when a mod NPC is bantering with vanilla NPCs.

[GrimLefourbe]

Don't they show up in the chat for everyone? I have subtitles activated because I sometimes play without sound and all banters show in the chatlog for me. It could explain things.

[Shin]

Not an easy choice. Do overhead text strings seem like an inferior form of banter in nearly every way compared to dialogue files? Most certainly. They are easy to miss and don't provide the same level of immersion.

 

Should EET change them to dialogue as baseline? Like others in this thread, I would say 'yes, but make it optional'. Or if that isn't feasible like K4thos replied (though just outlining it enough so it can be separated from the rest of the content in a .tp2 or similar would be enough, like the earlier versions of SR), then the second best option seems to be changing them but including an option to revert the change. The third best option would then be leaving it as it is, and the fourth and final to change them no matter what. The reasoning is that modularity is nigh essential for a good mod, and is often what makes a good mod great - it doesn't force all the content down your throat, but lets you tailor your own experience. In my personal opinion this is a weakness of many of the mega-mods, and a strength of complex-but-modular ones like SCS.

 

On another note this also seems like a question of game philosophy. Some people might play the game more like a series of tactical challenges where banter and NPC personalities just get in the way; whereas others like to immerse themselves in the game world and can't imagine fast-forwarding through a conversation or playing without embellished companions.

[GrimLefourbe]

Not an easy choice. Do overhead text strings seem like an inferior form of banter in nearly every way compared to dialogue files? Most certainly. They are easy to miss and don't provide the same level of immersion.

 

This is very subjective and shouldn't be presented like this. I feel like overhead text strings just give me more options than banter dialogs. Why would npcs stop the whole party to talk? I can agree with the "easy to miss" but "don't provide the same level of immersion" sounds weird when it seems that overhead dialog exists to provide better immersion at the cost of usability when you don't have subtitles enabled. That, however, is just my opinion because I play with subtitles and it fits the way I play. I'm not forcing this viewpoint onto anyone.

 

"inferior in nearly everyway" just seems like disregarding all the discussion about it in 4 words. If it was as obvious as you make it sound there wouldn't be such a close vote.

 

The 2 methods have different strengths and purposes and the best mods will know when to use each so force changing them all into one or the other as a default component seems very wrong to me even with an option to change it back because the EET tweaks component would only know about vanilla banters. (if main EET changes them someway, the information on which was changed is lost at the end of its execution) Vanilla but tweakable is the option that's been chosen by K4thos anyway.

[Shin]

 

Not an easy choice. Do overhead text strings seem like an inferior form of banter in nearly every way compared to dialogue files? Most certainly. They are easy to miss and don't provide the same level of immersion.

 

This is very subjective and shouldn't be presented like this. I feel like overhead text strings just give me more options than banter dialogs. Why would npcs stop the whole party to talk? I can agree with the "easy to miss" but "don't provide the same level of immersion" sounds weird when it seems that overhead dialog exists to provide better immersion at the cost of usability when you don't have subtitles enabled. That, however, is just my opinion because I play with subtitles and it fits the way I play. I'm not forcing this viewpoint onto anyone.

 

"inferior in nearly everyway" just seems like disregarding all the discussion about it in 4 words. If it was as obvious as you make it sound there wouldn't be such a close vote.

 

I thought the close vote wasn't due to text strings seeming like a great option, but rather because changing them would constitute an unnecessary change that might lead to compatibility problems. If the 'old' dialogue-style banter wouldn't seem like a better option in other respects there would be no reason at all to change anything. Anyway, I respect your point of view and didn't mean to sound like I stated a fact - the entire post is just my opinion.

[Mirandel]

Don't they show up in the chat for everyone? I have subtitles activated because I sometimes play without sound and all banters show in the chatlog for me. It could explain things.

 

This is one thing. Another - chat is different now. It's harder to follow dialogs. And it was already said, that "banter on the go" feature is for voiced dialogs, while all custom-NPC mods will be silent and you would have to constantly monitor that inconvenient chat in order not to miss a banter. As for immersion... For me it's kind of difficult to immerse myself into the conversation which looks like this:

 

"You picked up a sword"

- I wanted to talk to you, Minsk

"You picked up a lump of coal"

"A goblin is shooting at you for 4 dmg"

"You shoot the goblin for 40 dmg"

- Boo would love to talk too, Dorn"

"You loot a short bow"

- I do not talk to rodents.

"You are entering the cave"

 

Kind of distracting, you know?

[Roxanne]

A mod is now available for EET to solve the issue

 

SoD Banter Restoration

This mod converts the major banters of the continuous NPCs during SoD into *old-style* dialogues that interrupt the game and require player interaction. About 80 longer conversations during SoD are thus restored and maybe recognised by players for the first time. Many of them deserve larger attention.

 

It is here

http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1175-sod-banter-restoration/

[AWizardDidIt]

Oh neat mod, thanks for that Roxanne

[AstroBryGuy]

A mod is now available for EET to solve the issue

 

SoD Banter Restoration

This mod converts the major banters of the continuous NPCs during SoD into *old-style* dialogues that interrupt the game and require player interaction. About 80 longer conversations during SoD are thus restored and maybe recognised by players for the first time. Many of them deserve larger attention.

 

It is here

http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1175-sod-banter-restoration/

 

This is very cool. But I notice that it is for EET only and it removes the voice-overs. Would you mind if I adapted it for non-EET SoD?