Thieves

[Ardanis]

- patch scrolls to be usable by thieves with INT requirement

I'm all for INT req. It may even enforce back the currently disabled wizard's INT req for learning high-level spells. If a thief can read scroll from the 1st level, I'd call it fine - in order to read good scrolls, he'd need 14+ INT.

 

- add a spl (via clab***.2da) with custom sec type to make all thieves unable to use them

- add a spl to True Thief at 10th lvl to remove the above one

Permanent timings are not removed. Has tried that long ago.

[Kalindor]

I am not sure that I understand the conceptual goals of steering clear of magical-seeming abilities for theives but then allowing them to cast magic from scrolls.

[Demivrgvs]

I am not sure that I understand the conceptual goals of steering clear of magical-seeming abilities for theives but then allowing them to cast magic from scrolls.

I knew this would have come up. The idea (shared by all PnP edition I guess) is that the class does not posses any innate magical ability, but can comprehend magic (thanks to high INT) enough to use magical devices and read magical scrolls. When it comes to both wands and scrolls, their magic is already there, granted by the mage who crafted or scribed them. The rogue is just unlocking/unleashing the stored magical energies.

[Kalindor]

I think any class of sufficient INT should therefore be able to use these items.

[leania]

Well, as far as I know the reason allowing casting spells by scrolls and using wands to Theives is making them more useful than vanilla's. Thieves' combat powers are extremely lower than the other classes. They have only two unique combat abilities; backstabbing and trapping. The first one gonna be useless especially when you reach to TOB because there are many creatures immune to backstabbing, and the second one is generally restrictly useful (cheat-like use or nothing).

 

Since another rogue, Bards, can cast spells steadily, the restricted spell casting ability, aka casting spells by reading scrolls, is reasonable for Thieves imo. Besides this seems to be very fit to Thieves to show their variety of talent, but not special.

[DrAzTiK]

the second one is generally restrictly useful (cheat-like use or nothing).

Traps need to have a cost of gold !

[Jarno Mikkola]

the second one is generally restrictly useful (cheat-like use or nothing).

Traps need to have a cost of gold !

That goes against itself actually... so let's say the cost is 100 gold... it's nice to waste money to fight koblins... ? Or trap a Lich worth 10K or 20K so it can't move with 500 gold...

 

I knew this would have come up. The idea (shared by all PnP edition I guess) is that the class does not posses any innate magical ability, but can comprehend magic (thanks to high INT) enough to use magical devices and read magical scrolls. When it comes to both wands and scrolls, their magic is already there, granted by the mage who crafted or scribed them. The rogue is just unlocking/unleashing the stored magical energies.

Well, but one could argue that the theif can still have abilities that the others see as magical... say the use or smoke pellets or caltrop. There's no such weapons in BG, and for a good reason... but a proper thief could still use the like "spells" to act their effects.