Opinions and suggestions for v3

[Wisp]

Version 3 of Item Randomiser is nearing completion. I won't give an estimate, but I'd like to have it out within two weeks, three at the very most.

 

The preliminary changes so far (including spoilers):

• Fixed bug involving the golems in the de'Arnise keep and the Elven Court Bow and Frostreaver.
   
  
• Added Polish translation by Yarpen.
   
  
• Randomised items lacking a lore value are now not given one if the G3 BG2 Tweakpack component "Identify all items" is installed.
   
  
• Corrected bug where having items not being randomised due to other installed mods could cause other items to never show up.
   
  
• Cursed item surprise unless the mod "Cursed item revisions" is installed.
   
  
• The quest to send the Solamnic Knights home is now made available to every class, unless the Questpack component to do so is already installed.
   
  
• T'rachie's Plate is regular plate armor (AC 3) instead of +5 plate.
   
  
• Mode 2: Humanoid Abazigal now receives all items dragon Abazigal does.
   
  
• Mode 2: Item swapping routine is now more comprehensive. Creatures will typically be equipped with the best items they possess.
   
  
• Mode 1: Possibly a slight reduction in time needed to place the item.
   
  
• Mode 2: Fixed bug specific to BG1 that could cause someone to have his non-magical launcher (e.g. bow) swapped out for a launcher of another type.
   
  
• Mode 1: BG2: Added Girdle of Fortitude, Bracers of Archery, Gloves of Pick Pocketing, Pearly White Ioun Stone as tier 1; Ashen Scales +2, Cloak of Non-Detection, Orc Leather +3, Armor of the Viper +5, Large Shield +1, +4 vs. Missiles, Sling +3: 'Arla's Dragonbane', Bracers of Binding as tier 2; Girdle of Stone Giant Strength, Heartseeker +3 (also removed from ribald3.sto) as tier 3; Boneblade +4, Helmet of Defense, Cutthroat +4 as tier 4; Soul Reaver +4, Dragon's Breath +4 as tier 5; Usuno's Blade +4 as tier 6; Bard's Gloves as tier 7; Helm of the Rock as tier 9.
   
  
• Mode 2: BG1: Added Girdle of Piercing, Dusty Rose Ioun Stone, Ring of Spell Turning, Rod or Lordly Might, Spear +1, Halcyon, Sword of Flame +1 (also removed from Bernard's), Helm of Glory, Missile Attraction +2, Backbiter +3 as tier 1; Strong Arm +2, The Sleeper +2, Dwarven Thrower +3, Dragon Helm, Ring of Regeneration, Dragon Scale Shield +2, Shield of the Lost +2, Bastard Sword +1, +3 vs. Shapeshifters, Dragonslayer, Heavy Crossbow of Searing +1, Armor of Deep Night +4, Cloak of the Stars, Ilbratha +1, Rashad's Talon +2, Golden Girdle as tier 2; Skullcrusher +3, Boomerang Dagger +2, War Hammer +1, +4 vs. Giantkin, Ring of the Ram, Rod of Smiting, Sentinel +4, Shield of Harmony, Giant Hair Crossbow +3, Battle Axe +3: Stonefire, Flame Tongue +1, Ring of Folly, Gauntlets of Fumbling as tier 3; Gesen Bow String, Crimson Chain +5, Fortress Shield +3, Staff of Rynn +4, Jhor the Bleeder +2, T'rachie's Plate, Ring of Clumsiness as tier 4; Gorgon Plate +4, Celestial Fury as tier 5; Rune Hammer +4, Spectral Brand +4 as tier 6; Darksteel Shield +4 as tier 9.
   
  
• Mode 1: BG2: Gaal, pile in troll mound, table in back room of Copper Coronet, top rubble container in magma in Temple Ruins, temple sewer thugs, guarded compound gang as tier 1; Chest in second level of vampire nest in chapter 3, Sorcerous Amon, chest in basement in de'Arnise keep; container in fire room in Planar Sphere, closet in Deirex' quarters, planar prison bounty hunters as tier 2; Adsaan, golem stash in Firkraag's dungeon, statue with hands in ruined temple, surfacer adventurer party in underdark, surfacer adventurer party in underdark, pillar cache behind TorGal as tier 3; Qilue, container in Planar Sphere ice room, Twisted Rune gang, guarded compound gang as tier 4; Underdark demon knight leader, boat in Bodhi's lair in chapter 6, Deirex as tier 5; Yakman's garbage as tier 7; Human thief statue on first level of Watcher's keep; Fire Giant on second level of Watcher's keep as tier 9.
   
  
• Mode 2: BG2: Kalah, Asylum item riddle, Sahuagin treasury, skeleton with Halcyon, Ribald's regular wares, Ribald's regular wares, keep statue formerly holding Hammer vs. Giantkin, Telwyn's reward as tier 1; Ribald's regular wares, Trademeet merchant, well in Firkraag's dungeon, Asylum face riddles, one item of Samia's treasure, Madulf's reward, reward from Lehtinan or Hendak, Ribald's regular wares, Bernard's special wares, Dalok, Jermien's reward, Khan Zahraa's reward, reward for sending Solamnic knights home as tier 2; Goldander's reward, Captain Dennis' reward, Tolgerias' reward, drow merchant, another drow merchant, Guildmistress Busya's reward, Lasaonar's reward, drow merchant, Ribald's special wares, Merella, other item of Samia's treasure, Ribald's special wares as tier 3; chest in Asylum golem room, Ribald's special wares, drow merchant, drow merchant, Ardulace as tier 4; Ardulace as tier 5; Yaga-Shura, item from gambling cambion as tier 6; Diaytha as tier 9.
   
  
• Elven Court Bow, Frostreaver, Golem statue locations, Shield of the Order and Yaga-Shura moved to mode 2 lists. Spellhold painting illithid, Irenicus' closet in Spellhold are now tier 2 instead of tier 3; Aeger's Hide +3, Sling of Seeking +2, Spectator's chest are now tier 3 instead of tier 2; keep statue formerly holding the Elven Court Bow is now tier 3 instead of tier 1; Lea'liyl is tier 4 instead of tier 3. Chromatic Demon now recieves a tier 6 item instead of a tier 9 item
   
  
• Mode 1: BG1: Added Ring of Energy(Denak), Studded leather of missile attraction(added) as tier 24; War Hammer +1(Raiken), Quarterstaff +1(Silke), Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy, Backbiter +3 as tier 25; Girdle of Bluntness, Boots of Grounding, Bracers of Archery, Cloak of Protection +1(farmhouse), Studded Leather +2, Bracers of Defense AC 6(Davaeorn), Ring of Clumsiness(Niemain) as tier 26; Amulet of Metaspell Influence, Grave Binder, Ring of Fire Resistance, Ring of Holiness, Full Plate Armor(Taerum) as tier 27; Bala's Axe as tier 29; Staff Spear +2 as tier 30.
   
  
• Mode 1: BG1: Added Denak, Cloakwood spider's nest; Silke, Drasus and gang, Mulahey, Teyngan of the lake, Undead Knight(Firewine) as tier 25: Mulahey, Taugosz Khosann, Zal, Sendai, Davaeorn, Niemain(SS) as tier 26; Ramazith's desk, Slythe and Krystin, First, bottom-most, grave in Candlekeep catacombs, Slythe and Krystin, Chest on second floor of Flaming Fist compound as tier 27; statue in maze as tier 29; Kirinhale as tier 30.
   
  
• Mode 2: BG2: Added Leather Armor +2 as tier 24; Morning Star +1(Drakar), Sling +1(Taerum), Quarterstaff +1(Taerum) as tier 25; Splint mail +1, Splint mail +1, Cloak of Protection +1(Nemphre), Helm of Glory, Plate Armor +1(Genthore), Chain mail +2 as tier 26; Longbow of Marksmanship, Ashideena +2, Boots of Avoidance, Large Shield +1, +4 vs. Missiles as tier 27; Helmet of Defense as tier 28.
   
  
• Mode 2: BG2: Added Lamalha and gang as tier 24; Molkar and gang, Taerum's wares, Feldepost's inn store as tier 25; Raemon and gang, closet in Degrodel's house, shelf on first floor of Nemphre's house, Jardak, Drasus and gang, Molkar and gang as tier 26; Bassilus, Nimbul, Varci's reward, Raemon and gang as tier 27; Droth as tier 28.
   
  
• Ardenor is now tier 26 instead of tier 25.
  

I'll gladly listen to any feedback and I'm open to doing something differently if someone can make a case for why it should be so. (These changes are not final.)

 

Mode 1 of version 3 of Item Randomiser will randomise up to 180 items in BG2 and up to 126 items in BG1. Mode 2 will randomise up to 239 items in BG2 and up to 142 items in BG1. All assuming nothing change, of course.

 

As you can probably imagine, the lists of unrandomised unique, rare or otherwise prominent items are getting comparatively short.

For BG2 I have:

• Skull of Death (Vithal)
   
  
• Rod of Absorption (Vithal)
   
  
• Rod of Resurrection (Mekrath's lair)
   
  
• Staff of Command (Underdark Illithids)
   
  
• Short Sword of Backstabbing (Renal)
   
  
• Arbane's Sword (Suna Seni)
   
  
• Crossbow of Affliction (Deirex's stash)
   
  
• Rifthome Axe (Arkanis Gath)
   
  
• Girdle of Bluntness (Château Irenicus plus two temple stores)
   
  
• Wyvern's Tail (Draug Fea)
   
  
• Gnasher (Dalok)
   
  
• Ice Star (Gromnir)
   
  
• Ripper (Togan)
   
  
• Darkmail (Shadow Patrick)
   
  
• Jester's Chain (using all your tokens for boot machine)
   
  
• Sylvan Chain (Illasera)
   
  
• Nymph's Cloak (Gorch)
   
  
• Cloak of Reflection (Spellhold)
   
  
• Pixie Prick (Halfling Planar Prison bounty hunter)
   
  
• Blackmist (Lesser Demon Lord)
   
  
• Duskblade (Shadow Patrick)
   
  
• Lavender Ioun Stone (Gromnir)
   
  
• Wong Fei's Ioun Stone (Sendai)
   
  
• Protector of the Second (Planar Sphere)
   
  
• Shadow Armor (Mae'Var)
   
  
• Hard of Discord (Mekrath's lair)
   
  
• Methild's Harp (Underdark Illithids)
   
  
• The Night's Gift (Mayor of Umar Hills)
   
  
• Grandmaster's Armor (Eler Had)
   
  
• Delver's Plate (DigDag)
   
  
• Shuruppak's Plate (Yaga-Shura)
   
  
• Ring of Lock Picks (Shadow Thief fought while going after Aran)
   
  
• Namarra (Crypt King)
   
  
• The Answerer (Jamis Tombelthen)
   
  
• Cursed Berserking Sword (Smaeluv Orcslicer)
   
  
• Harbinger (Drow merchant)
   
  
• Gram the Sword of Grief (Abazigal)
   
  
• Necaradan's Crossbow (Adalon)
   
  
• Items sold by the bonus merchants
  

For BG1 I have:

• Battle Axe +2 (Gretek)
   
  
• Throwing Axe +2 (Prat)
   
  
• Boots of Stealth (Warehouse guy Nadarin)
   
  
• Eagle Bow (Marek)
   
  
• Halberd +2 (Zhalimar Cloudwulfe)
   
  
• Ring of Free Action (Alai)
   
  
• Two Handed Sword +1 (the half-ogre Arghain)
  

Items that have a story reason for being where they are (e.g. Carsomyr or Spider's Bane) are absent.

Most of these items are equipped and used by the creatures who possess them, others are simply inconvenient to randomise and yet others are simply ones I haven't gotten around to.

 

If there's something you'd like to see randomised sooner rather than later, I can see about adding it to v3. Also, feel free to mention items that I've overlooked (unique, rare or otherwise).

 

With the increased number of items randomised by Mode 1 in BG2, the initial freeze while the game loads the scripts is now up to roughly 30 seconds on my computer and the total time needed to randomise the items (including freeze) is now something in the area of 2 minutes (give or take ~30 seconds).

Is this too long? I can move some items from the Mode 1 lists to the Mode 2 lists if it is. The times are shorter in BG1 than they are in BG2, but longer than they were in v2.

[Shaitan]

to Hi!

 

I like where this is going. I can't really point to something to do better. Only a wish to not to touch Vithal's stuff.

 

Keep up the good work

[Wisp]

Only a wish to not to touch Vithal's stuff.

Okay. At least it will spare me the works involved in making the randomisation of those two items compatible with Questpack.

 

Does anyone have any other opinions for items like these, that should be left where they are, or were?

[Azazello]

I'm using the mod now and have had some nice touches, such as getting items normally not used.

 

I'm sure this has been requested before ('exclude' yields not results in a search, and I fully admit being too lazy to reading thru previous posts)...

 

Being able to exclude items that would normally be randomized.

 

As an experienced player I often create a theme for the various run-thru I maintain. In this run-thru, there's at least one item that must be readily buyable. I had to NI the location of the item - it got randomized into a shop from the mod 'Check the Bodies' - then CLUA-jump to the place to buy the item. I just hope I haven't triggered any important variables by going to the shop early (and modder is famous for his use of variables).

 

Without this techy knowledge, my theme would have been ruined.

 

I don't need anything fancy for an EXCLUDE function. Even a section in TP2 to enter the item values manually would be fine.

[Wisp]

I'm using the mod now and have had some nice touches, such as getting items normally not used.

 

I'm sure this has been requested before ('exclude' yields not results in a search, and I fully admit being too lazy to reading thru previous posts)...

This is the first time this feature has been requested, as far as I know.

 

Being able to exclude items that would normally be randomized.

I initially intended this as easy as "open the text file randomiser/lists/itemlist.2da, remove the items you do not want randomised and then install the main component", but over time it has become a bit more complicated than that. Removing rows from itemlist.2da (or bg1item.2da, weiduitem.2da or weidu_bg1item.2da) still works for items that are taken from areas, creatures or stores (Source is XXX.are, XXX.cre, XXX.sto or "blank"). But there are also items that are taken from e.g. scripts (.bcs) or dialogues (.dlg) and they're not quite as easy to remove. I'll try to do something about this in in either v3 or v4.

 

If there's demand for it, I can write something to query the user if he would like to keep some items from being randomised and if so, which items. But I'm not convinced this would add much. Editing 2da files strikes me as a easier and more efficient way to do this.

 

I'm very open to discussing this further if anyone thinks editing 2da files is not good enough. If it is generally thought that editing 2da files is good enough, I'll write a more comprehensive (wordier) how-to with examples and illustrations and such. There's already something posted on the subject here

 

I had to NI the location of the item - it got randomized into a shop from the mod 'Check the Bodies' - then CLUA-jump to the place to buy the item.

That sounds odd. V2 doesn't insert any items into stores, and certainly not into mod-added stores.

[misfeature]

With the increased number of items randomised by Mode 1 in BG2, the initial freeze while the game loads the scripts is now up to roughly 30 seconds on my computer and the total time needed to randomise the items (including freeze) is now something in the area of 2 minutes (give or take ~30 seconds).

Is this too long? I can move some items from the Mode 1 lists to the Mode 2 lists if it is. The times are shorter in BG1 than they are in BG2, but longer than they were in v2.

Personally, the wait doesn't bother me. I first ran BG2 on a 433MHz processor... I've developed a coping mechanism.

 

That said, what's the chance of randomizing the weaker items in BG2, as you've done for BG1? I pretty much know where every Quarterstaff +1 is, etc., and I'd be happy if it weren't so.

 

Also, this suggests a more general solution to the slowdown problem. Perhaps you could make the options more granular? I'm not sure everyone would mind knowing where to find the Metaspell amulet (although Chateau Irenicus is a special case of tear-inducing repeditiveness), but the archmagi robes should obviously be more of a chance find.

[Wisp]

Personally, the wait doesn't bother me. I first ran BG2 on a 433MHz processor... I've developed a coping mechanism.

 

That said, what's the chance of randomizing the weaker items in BG2, as you've done for BG1? I pretty much know where every Quarterstaff +1 is, etc., and I'd be happy if it weren't so.

 

Also, this suggests a more general solution to the slowdown problem. Perhaps you could make the options more granular? I'm not sure everyone would mind knowing where to find the Metaspell amulet (although Chateau Irenicus is a special case of tear-inducing repeditiveness), but the archmagi robes should obviously be more of a chance find.

I think I can randomise generic magical weapons and armour, as well as wands and some scrolls that are available in chapter 2/3 (no point in going further than that, right?). These additional items would most likely need to be optional (à la additional subcomponents or prompts during installation), or maybe even exclusive to mode 2, as v3 is starting to push the soft upper limit of what mode 1 can handle.

I'll see what I can do (though it'll likely not be implemented in v3).

 

Increasing the granularity is a good idea. V3 will hopefully be manageable without it, but I'll keep it in mind if I end up making mode 1 take even longer.

[misfeature]

I think I can randomise generic magical weapons and armour, as well as wands and some scrolls that are available in chapter 2/3 (no point in going further than that, right?).

It certainly wouldn't be as important past that point, no. (And truth be told, I don't usually get much further than that.)

 

But just to think about it for a moment: Scrolls at or above, say, level 4, remain useful thoughout the game, even if you've already memorized them, even if you've got better ones, and even if they don't sell for very much towards the end. That's to say, scrolls, and expendible items in general, scale differently from weapons and armor.

 

I suppose I'm speaking as someone who hoards scrolls, potions & wands like you wouldn't believe, but I think they wear well with age, or atleast do so better than other things.

 

Just a thought.

[Wisp]

Yes, randomising scrolls of high-ish level could be interesting. Ah, the workload just grows and grows

[Azazello]

I had to NI the location of the item - it got randomized into a shop from the mod 'Check the Bodies' - then CLUA-jump to the place to buy the item.

That sounds odd. V2 doesn't insert any items into stores, and certainly not into mod-added stores.

I don't know if the debug file would help you, but I got a current game with proof that the item is in that mod's store. And using NI's search function, the item is not located anywhere else.

 

I don't see this as a bug, but an interesting feature. Still, for especially for those playing a mega-install, it'll make getting some important items much-much more challenging.

 

...how-to with examples and illustrations and such. There's already something posted on the subject here

Thanks, this is very helpful.

[Wisp]

I had to NI the location of the item - it got randomized into a shop from the mod 'Check the Bodies' - then CLUA-jump to the place to buy the item.

That sounds odd. V2 doesn't insert any items into stores, and certainly not into mod-added stores.

I don't know if the debug file would help you, but I got a current game with proof that the item is in that mod's store. And using NI's search function, the item is not located anywhere else.

The debug file, along with the file names of the item and the store, would be of use, yes.

[Quester]

Can't wait to play with this mod!

 

However, I'm wondering about the compatibility between Item Randomiser and Hard Times. Specifically, this part of Hard Times:

 

• # Many of the exceptional or magic items that are just lying around the game world, particularly in the early game, have been replaced with less valuable items. This is intended to slow your party's accumulation of wealth such that you too feel the pain of what is happening in the area, to some degree. Furthermore, significant steps have been taken to reduce the proliferation of magic items throughout the game world. Some of these removed items, as well as some of the items you will no longer find within stores, can fall into your hands as loot obtained from your adventures. To spice things up a bit, the distribution of these items will not be static. Although the pool of items and the creatures who can drop them (essentially the "chapter bosses") will remain constant, the loot drops will be randomized such that you never know which of the creatures will yield what item from game to game.
  

 

Is there any conflict here? I don't know, just asking what you think about it.

 

Also, I'm curious if I should wait for version 3 of Item Randomiser before starting my next game. Do you believe it will be out in the next couple of weeks? Just asking because I'm planning to start a new game in that timeframe, and it would suck if I started playing and then the next day a new version was released. No promises of course, I understand. But is there much left to do?

 

Thanks!

[Wisp]

Can't wait to play with this mod!

That's nice to hear.

 

Is there any conflict here? I don't know, just asking what you think about it.

There shouldn't be any problems. If a specific item is not where it is supposed be to, Item Randomiser will not randomise it. If the randomisation done by Hard Times should, by chance, place the same item in the same place as it is located in the vanilla game, it will be randomised by Item Randomiser like normal.

 

Also, I'm curious if I should wait for version 3 of Item Randomiser before starting my next game. Do you believe it will be out in the next couple of weeks? Just asking because I'm planning to start a new game in that timeframe, and it would suck if I started playing and then the next day a new version was released. No promises of course, I understand. But is there much left to do?

I've submitted v3 to the good people here are G3, so I would hope it is out within the next few weeks, but I really do not know when it will be uploaded.

I can provide a link to v3 uploaded to Mediafire, if there's anyone who has any immediate need for it.

[Quester]

There shouldn't be any problems. If a specific item is not where it is supposed be to, Item Randomiser will not randomise it. If the randomisation done by Hard Times should, by chance, place the same item in the same place as it is located in the vanilla game, it will be randomised by Item Randomiser like normal.

Great!

 

I've submitted v3 to the good people here are G3, so I would hope it is out within the next few weeks, but I really do not know when it will be uploaded.

Fantastic!

 

I can provide a link to v3 uploaded to Mediafire, if there's anyone who has any immediate need for it.

Awesome! That would be me. Then I could start a new game this weekend.

[Shaitan]

Yeah please, a link would be nice one of the days