Jump to content

Kivan as part of LoI...


Grim Squeaker

Recommended Posts

See here for Nightmare's thoughts on that: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?s...indpost&p=52953

 

Basically, some additional Viconia's content, kit for Kivan, quests Nightmare planned for Kivan and cross-mod banter with LOI NPCs is something which will become LOI specific content once Nightmare is ready to send the materials my way. The already integrated content are Kivan's banter with bioWARE NPCs that were initially written by Nightmare for LOI, and later tweaked by me to fit it with the material I had.

 

As fro the content that I have contributed to LOI by making Kivan of Shilmista a part of it, well, I think, that it is sufficiently outlined in the content threads.

 

If that's what you are asking. If not, please, clarify your question. :down:

Link to comment

Plus a significant bust to LOI completness, I would say, as adding Kivan of Shilmista to LOI adds 2 years of independent efforts to the mod that did not count against man-hours for LOI creation. "Self-contained" as character development is, it takes a huge amount of time to create it and it is needed, even in a quest-geared mod. I would obviously not object if Deheriana or Kivan have a higher degree of participation in the LOI quests.

 

I am not sure why you sound so negative, to be honest. Kivan was always a planned part of LOI. It just got from "some banter for SoA written and some things planned" to the "fully developped, coded and tested NPC for SoA/TOB with some new content in the pipe-line to integrate him better into LOI." All he lacks is voicing. How the hell that is bad?

Link to comment

I'm just reviving an issue with LoI. I can see why you wanted to merge your Kivan with Nick's, however I still can't see why this Kivan is part of LoI. You had a two self-contained NPCs fully written and coded and now they are part of an enormous mod that won't see release for years (yes, I know you still have the independent release).

 

I know Nick wants to create 'an expansion' rather than just a quest mod but if all these NPCs do is interact a bit with the new material rather than being deeply tied into it, why are they a part of it?

Link to comment

In this case, I think, you will need to wait for Nighmare to talk on the subject of NPCs being tied into the expansion and quests. For my part, I would say that different people define "deep" involvment into the story line differently. Vlygar is deeply involved in the Planar Sphere quest but hardly in the rest of the SoA/ToB. Does it make him less of a BG2 NPC than Imoen who is kidnapped in the beginning of the game and then sold to you as a sister 3 Chapters later? Same with LOI, I am guessing: a character will participate in some of the LOI quests, and even serve as a catalist to the others. That sounds like a good tie in to me, than the infamous "and then they kidnapped NPC X and that started the brand-new CHARACTER QUEST in like TOTALLY NEW AND CEWL IWD1 AREA! YUPEE!"

 

As for autonomy of "my" mods, I flatter myself with being over making players appreciate which line was written by me and which - by someone else. Working on BG1NPC sort of teached me, that it's the end result that matters, though of course I feel warm inside when someone likes "my" content. LOI is a big and complex mod, and if I brought in stuff which helps to get it closer to the finish line, it sounds good to me. I get my kicks from working on a project, not from seeing my name as a moderator.

 

If at some point Nightmare wants to drop joinable NPCs as a part of LOI and just concentrate on quests instead, it's his descisions, and, well, it's not impossible to do.

Link to comment
In this case, I think, you will need to wait for Nighmare to talk on the subject of NPCs being tied into the expansion and quests. For my part, I would say that different people define "deep" involvment into the story line differently. Vlygar is deeply involved in the Planar Sphere quest but hardly in the rest of the SoA/ToB. Does it make him less of a BG2 NPC than Imoen who is kidnapped in the beginning of the game and then sold to you as a sister 3 Chapters later? Same with LOI, I am guessing: a character will participate in some of the LOI quests, and even serve as a catalist to the others. That sounds like a good tie in to me, than the infamous "and then they kidnapped NPC X and that started the brand-new CHARACTER QUEST in like TOTALLY NEW AND CEWL IWD1 AREA! YUPEE!"

The fact that you're insisting on a tie-in but you don't know what it is yet doesn't sound thrilling to me. If I wanted to merge Alassa with Improved Oasis, it would be *because* I had a credible connection in mind already--I wouldn't combine the TP2s and then make up some story link afterwards.

 

LOI is a big and complex mod, and if I brought in stuff which helps to get it closer to the finish line, it sounds good to me.

Except there's currently very little which is all that big or complex. You've brought in a standalone mod as padding to make LoI seem more major, but really, that's all it is. I don't believe in the philosophy of adding as much arbitrary stuff as possible to a mod to make it look big.

Link to comment

Well, continue not to be thrilled. I obviously can't put my foot right in your world, Sim. Sorry 'bout that. I would have accepted your argument if I just barged in with my totally unrelated NPC and asked it to be made a part of LOI. Instead, I worked hard and long on creating an NPC whioch was always planned to be a part of LOI, and when it was done, I humbly asked, if the group wanted the content merged. They did. If they did not, I would have kept it as a separate mod. It's as simple as that, and if I recall, you both have the access to all the backstage forums, and I have not heard you to express your "concerns" since the offer was advanced on Nov 29 2005, which was wow! three months ago. Now, you suddenly wish to discuss the matter publically once it was finalized, and Nightmare and I worked together for a while, Cam did forum reajustment.... Sweet.

 

I am sorry, but I am not going to waste my time on that "let's brew a scandal-routine" all over again. If Andyr and Nightmare tell me to get the f* out of their mod, I will appologize to Cam, and ask him to subdivide the forums again. I suggest that you now go and spend your energy elsewhere.

Link to comment

Alright, I didn't mean for it to sound quite so 'WTF?'. I like the fact that the two Kivan projects have merged (coz before it was kind of ridiuclous) I just was curious as to (now the merger is finalised) what LoI based content the two of you were planning. Question answered, lets move on.

Link to comment

For the record, one new LoI non-joinable NPC who will play a crucial role in Kivan's new quests (and who is a cousin of Deheriana) will also be the quest giver for two non-Kivan related quests. See "Unholy Trinity" and "The Manshoon Wars".

 

I'm afraid I don't really I understand the point you guys are trying to make. If two things that don't have intricate connections shouldn't be the part of the same mod, wouldn't that mean that the Quest pack should actually have been at least a dozen mods? Okay so everything in that is quests, but so what? Why should a mod feature only one specific type of content (i.e. quests, NPCs, kits, or whatever)?

Link to comment
I'm afraid I don't really I understand the point you guys are trying to make.  If two things that don't have intricate connections shouldn't be the part of the same mod,  wouldn't that mean that the Quest pack should actually have been at least a dozen mods? Okay so everything in that is quests, but so what? Why should a mod feature only one specific type of content (i.e. quests, NPCs, kits, or whatever)?

 

I'm not saying it should. I'm just saying that material in one mod should be there for a reason. Miscellaneous quests are in the Quest Pack because thats what QP is about. Tweak Pack contains tweaks. LoI seems to be a pretty cool setting with some new quests and stuff, and it can contain NPCs, thats fine. However, the NPCs shouldn't just feel that they were tacked on and could easily be made seperate without much of an impact on its material i.e. the new NPCs should feel somehow imbedded in the LoIness not just new NPCs for the sake of them.

Link to comment
Nightmare (Feb 19, 2004): (quote from description of LOI from: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?s...indpost&p=5281)

 

- A handful of new NPCs, including a Cavalier of Milil, a Cleric of Selune and an Elven Sorceress. We'll also be incorporating NPCs from certain other mods, such as the two very different (Half-)Elven Rangers Kivan and Elai. Their LoI incarnations will of course have even more dialogue and brand new quests!

 

Grim Squeaker (Feb 19, 2004, in direct responce to that description of LOI NPCs, including specific mention of Kivan as being an NPC incorporated from another mod): http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?s...findpost&p=5283

 

Sounds pretty damn cool. Release date... 2008?

 

I am sorry, but in view of this, I can only see your objections as not the "Kivan is insufficiently tied into LOI content" in nature, but "it was Domi who wrote it..."

 

What was done with the merger is directly in line with what Nightmare postulated: Kivan is brought in from another mod, with plenty of new dialogues and brand new quests.

 

There are currently Kivan-related encounters in the mod (Lover's Ring, Malenti, Tazok's Heart and Deheriana's Ressurection), and he will be further tied into the two long ago planned LOI quests connected with his land of birth to which he reffers to quite often in his dialogues, to the historical war in Shilmista, to which he also reffers in his dialogues, to his diety - Shevarash, to whom he also reffers constantly in his dialogues - and the quest-giver is an NPC proposed to Nightmare is a relative of the character that KoSh introduced, Deheriana.

 

So, that's how Kivan will be tied into LoI.

 

Of course, we are pondering having him kidnapped by the ominous, mysterious and demented wizards which shows up in the major LOI Quest XX because he is so deliciously special and everyone wants his hot elven body for "experiments" and *that* will open the new areas and every other LOI quest.

Link to comment

Actually, the reason I brought it up is now LoI has NPC content whereas before they were just 'oh we're eventually gonna make some NPCs but don't have anything yet'. There was very little detail about the new material back then so I assumed that the eventual NPCs would have loads of content tied to the new quests and areas.

 

Believe me, I have nothing against you (who I haven't had much of a chance to talk but you seem nice enough) or your NPC (I haven't played with him so can have no opinions for or against him). I apologise for giving you the wrong idea.

Link to comment

I am glad that we've sorted it out.

 

There was very little detail about the new material back then so I assumed that the eventual NPCs would have loads of content tied to the new quests and areas.

 

He will. I assure you, that I will never let Kivan/Deheriana participate in the mod less than other LOI joinable NPCs, and he already has quests that depends on his presence in the party, directly tied to him, and has endless dialogues for him. The fact that they were once called "KoSh quests" and now are called "LOI quests" changes... well, nothing imo. They were not released before Kiv was integrated, so they are starting out as LOI content.

 

However, I do hope that the end result will be balanced, where the NPCs will be visible and shine, but not steal the game from the PC.

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...