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One-handed spears for Tweaks Anthology?


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#1 rrchristensen

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 10:26 AM

Dear all

 

As you know, Tweaks Anthology already offers the option of wielding axes, katanas, and bastard swords singlehandedly or with two hands.

 

Here's an idea: How about the option of wielding spears single-handedly? This would allow spear wielders to use shields, would fit very well with classical uses of the spear in Ancient Greece and Rome, and would give my characters a chance to yell "THIS IS BEREGOOOST! TONIGHT WE DINE IN THE NINE HELLS!" Also note the awesome spear-and-shield guy in Game of Thrones, the slave, Grey Worm? Total badass. Would love to emulate him.

 

EDIT: Ah, I just realized that this is actually a rather large request due to the lack of one-handed spear animations. Katanas and bastard swords were doable with two-handed sword animations; axes with halberd animations; but the spear is a sticking point (ehehe). Is this is even doable from an animations standpoint? 

 

EDIT2: Ahah, having googled my very original idea, I see it is not original. Others have discussed this before. Oh well. Still, if it's possible, you guys are the guys who can do this.

 

 

Here's what the AD&D 2nd ed. Arms and Equipment Guide had to say about spears, in part. 

 

"Spear shafts are usually made from yew or ash, since these woods are both flexible and strong. The shafts range five to eleven feet in length. In melee, spears may be used either one or two handed, with more damage inflicted if used in the latter mode. [...]"

 

                                                              Weight                           Speed       Damage

Item                                    Cost        (lbs)     Size        Type      Factor  S-M        L

Spear                                   --              --          --            --            --            --             --

     One-handed                   8 sp          5           M            P             6            1d6         1d8

     Two-handed                   8 sp          5           M            P             6            1d8+1    2d6

 

 

 

The AD&D 2nd ed. Complete Fighter's Handbook (approx. p. 131) goes into more detail, and the most important point here is the assumption that spears are one-handed but can be wielded two-handedly, too:

 

"As you can see, five weapons fall into the One-Handed Or Two-Handed category: The Bastard Sword, and four spear-like weapons (Harpoon, Javelin, Spear, Trident). In the Player's Handbook, it's presumed that you're fighting with Spear one-handed, and with Harpoon, Javelin, and Trident two-handed. (This is because Spear is a Medium weapon and the others are Large.) However, in The Complete Fighter's Handbook, any of these weapons can be used either in one hand or in both. But they can also be wielded two-handed, and do even more damage when they are. [...]"


Edited by rrchristensen, 05 February 2017 - 12:04 PM.


#2 Fiann of the Silver Hand

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 08:20 PM

I would say that calling a javelin 2-handed by default (or ever) would pretty much invalidate that source's credibility, and therefore free you from the rules' artificial constraints.


Edited by Fiann of the Silver Hand, 05 February 2017 - 08:20 PM.


#3 rrchristensen

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:54 AM

Nah, I was just trying to build precedence for spears being one-handed in PnP and show the damage and speed factor relevant to implementing it in BG. Javelins are not on the table here.



#4 subtledoctor

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:47 PM

Here's what the AD&D 2nd ed. Arms and Equipment Guide had to say about spears, in part. 


Indeed, and while it is very difficult, if not impossible, to actually have 1-handed spears in the game, this is why my mod sets spears to what they actually are per the Arms & Equipment Guide and the Complete Fighter's Handbook: "long spears" that are 2-handed and do 1d8+1 base damage.

I believe the EEs, at least, actually include an animation for thrown javelins. Some mod added them once, a couple years ago. I wonder if you couldn't just set the range to very low and code it as a melee weapon, if the animation wouldn't work to simulate 1-handed melee use. But it probably wouldn't work, and I lack the time and expertise to play with it to find out...

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#5 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 10:12 PM

I believe the EEs, at least, actually include an animation for thrown javelins. Some mod added them once,

Which mod ? A message like that is very annoying unless you actually give a link to the mod.
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#6 bob_veng

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 10:22 AM

S3 Javelins



#7 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:44 AM

S3 Javelins

It doesn't.... it uses existing projectile animation, which can't really be used at melee, as it doesn't project a thing.
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#8 bob_veng

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 06:24 AM

i haven't tried it. so no animation of spear throwing? just an arm motion like with darts?


Edited by bob_veng, 08 February 2017 - 06:25 AM.


#9 subtledoctor

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 01:22 PM

I think Chimeric might have tried it out (along with other good ideas, like 2-handed morning stars) and something happens like, the spear diasappears right at the moment of striking the enemy.  Which is just too visually jarring for me to take up the cause and put it in my mod.


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#10 CamDawg

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 09:03 AM

Animations have always been the problem for these components. Two-handed axes looking like halberds is lame, and katanas turning into uncurved two-handed swords is worse, but short of a 1pp-like effort for new animations we're kinda stuck with them.


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#11 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:11 AM

Animations have always been the problem for these components. Two-handed axes looking like halberds is lame, and katanas turning into uncurved two-handed swords is worse..

In those cases you would only have to restrict the usage of the other hand... it's not exactly perfect, but the damage bonus kinda comes from utilizing the second hand as the support or weight distributor in the animation, and as such it can fling around all it wants. Aka you don't need to change a thing... except the .itm's definition of in which hand it can be used in and that it's technically a two handed weapon even if the animation looks like 1 handed.
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#12 CamDawg

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:16 AM

 

Animations have always been the problem for these components. Two-handed axes looking like halberds is lame, and katanas turning into uncurved two-handed swords is worse..

In those cases you would only have to restrict the usage of the other hand... it's not exactly perfect, but the damage bonus kinda comes from utilizing the second hand as the support or weight distributor in the animation, and as such it can fling around all it wants. Aka you don't need to change a thing... except the .itm's definition of in which hand it can be used in and that it's technically a two handed weapon even if the animation looks like 1 handed.

 

OK, let me expand my statement further.

 

Two-handed axes looking like halberds is lame, and katanas turning into uncurved two-handed swords is worse, and two-handed katanas being wielded by one hand when they're supposed to be two-handed is even worse than that.


I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.


#13 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:47 PM

OK, let me expand my statement further.

Or you could give the player the choice to install between the two (graphical) options.
Yeah the Katana being wielded as one hand weapon is lame. But I am betting that it can temporarily be attached to one hand only, aka any time it's not used to apply force.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 09 June 2017 - 12:53 PM.

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Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#14 subtledoctor

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 04:45 AM

Animations have always been the problem for these components. Two-handed axes looking like halberds is lame, and katanas turning into uncurved two-handed swords is worse,

Did you ever notice this? Maybe could be useful...

https://forums.beamd...anded-animation

Edited by subtledoctor, 10 June 2017 - 04:46 AM.

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#15 CamDawg

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 05:18 AM

Yep. He sent me a PM, I replied, I never got a followup from him, and he's not been seen for two years.

I came here with a simple dream: a dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real seven billion ton robot monster here? Not I. Not... I.




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