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WTP Familiars (revised Find Familiar spell)

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#31 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 06:40 PM

What about this: give the creature 1/2 the casters hp, regardless of class, but have it otherwise level up per their wizard levels? That way your wizard/thief 1/20 doesn't have a familiar walking through throne of bhaal with 2hp(?)

Ouh, yeah, and give it the rogue skills of it's host, and Thac0 of based on it's fighter level, even if it's no one. And Save throws based on the games chapter account and AC according to how many party members the player has in he current group... hmm ouh NO !

All those ideas are NOT good ones. Let's just let Salk make his own mind and mod and then judge after, K? Again my opinion is that the Caster level should rule all the things, but that's just my opinion... Salk can have any of these ideas, but I recommend none of them.


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#32 Salk

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 09:06 PM

 

What about this: give the creature 1/2 the casters hp, regardless of class, but have it otherwise level up per their wizard levels? That way your wizard/thief 1/20 doesn't have a familiar walking through throne of bhaal with 2hp(?)
Edit

I like that idea: I always worry that the little guys will die...

 

 

I understand the worry and I feel the same.

 

My objection to a similar change is, again, conceptual: why would the Familiar gain those HPs without levelling up? The extra HP bonus has always been tied to an improvement in level.

 

Also, it would open to an exploit: having a single Mage level just to gain the extra HPs (by the way, now it won't just be as convenient to summon a familiar just to park them in the backpack: they will nag about it! :)) - I worked hard to try and make the familiar have a more active role in the game.


Edited by Salk, 22 January 2015 - 09:08 PM.


#33 Salk

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 09:24 PM

Let's just let Salk make his own mind and mod and then judge after, K?

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence but Grammarsalad did just what I asked: give me his opinion, which I am grateful for.



#34 Grammarsalad

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 04:03 AM


 


What about this: give the creature 1/2 the casters hp, regardless of class, but have it otherwise level up per their wizard levels? That way your wizard/thief 1/20 doesn't have a familiar walking through throne of bhaal with 2hp(?)
Edit

I like that idea: I always worry that the little guys will die...
 
 
I understand the worry and I feel the same.
 
My objection to a similar change is, again, conceptual: why would the Familiar gain those HPs without levelling up? The extra HP bonus has always been tied to an improvement in level.
 
Also, it would open to an exploit: having a single Mage level just to gain the extra HPs (by the way, now it won't just be as convenient to summon a familiar just to park them in the backpack: they will nag about it! :)) - I worked hard to try and make the familiar have a more active role in the game.
That is a good question. Okay, maybe something like this:

Familiars are unique creatures that have their own unique rules. They don't gain experience as a normal creature; their growth is intimately tied to their "master". While their "skill" is informed by the masters magical skill, their "life force" is, in some sense, tied to the masters life force; this is why the caster suffers physically when the familiar dies. As a character (ie the caster) levels up, their "life force" gets stronger (well, hit points represent a lot of things, but this as much as anything, no?) It seems that, if they are so closely tied in this way, then as the casters "life force"gets stronger, so does the familiars. Something like that

Edits all over the place, but also this: this is the justification; in the background is the concern for the little guy's squishyness

Edited by Grammarsalad, 23 January 2015 - 04:11 AM.


#35 Salk

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 04:14 AM

Well, the question presented like this has its merit, Grammarsalad but I still see two problems: 1) the level up of the familiar grants improvements that helps its survival beyond the mere number of Hit Points: I am speaking of Armor Class and Saving Throws improvement, THAC0, weapon enchantment, skills and special abilities. And (2) the way I see it, it's more the Master's life force being boosted by the Familiar and not viceversa. Your theory seems to imply the familiar's total HPs depends on the the Master's life force instead.

 

In my mod, the Master loses the extra HPs gained through the familiar but does *not* get any additional HP damage. The consequences of the death of the Familiar changed from the original spell. As said, the extra HPs are gone, the constitution penalty is temporary (3 days, I might consider going down to 2 - mourning period) in order to avoid reloads, during the mourning no familiar can be summoned. At the death of the familiar the Master will roll for a System Shock (Constitution modified) save or fall unconscious for a short period due to the violently severed bond.


Edited by Salk, 23 January 2015 - 04:26 AM.


#36 Salk

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 04:40 AM

Beta 2 has been uploaded.

 

- Tentative change towards an exclusive Mage class only level up system

- Changed some variables from global to locals

- Squashed a couple of bugs



#37 Grammarsalad

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 04:53 AM

Well, the question presented like this has its merit, Grammarsalad but I still see two problems: 1) the level up of the familiar grants improvements that helps its survival beyond the mere number of Hit Points: I am speaking of Armor Class and Saving Throws improvement, THAC0, weapon enchantment, skills and special abilities. And (2) the way I see it, it's more the Master's life force being boosted by the Familiar and not viceversa. Your theory seems to imply the familiar's total HPs depends on the the Master's life force instead.
 
In my mod, the Master loses the extra HPs gained through the familiar but does *not* get any additional HP damage. The consequences of the death of the Familiar changed from the original spell. As said, the extra HPs are gone, the constitution penalty is temporary (3 days, I might consider going down to 2 - mourning period) in order to avoid reloads, during the mourning no familiar can be summoned. At the death of the familiar the Master will roll for a System Shock (Constitution modified) save or fall unconscious for a short period due to the violently severed bond.


1) Well, yeah, but there should be some limits. I had the imps objections in my head before he voiced them :)

2) I suppose...but in the op, it says that the familiar gets half the casters hp. The fact that hp are so tied seems to suggest a two way connection

#38 Salk

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 06:00 AM

1) Well, yeah, but there should be some limits. I had the imps objections in my head before he voiced them :)


2) I suppose...but in the op, it says that the familiar gets half the casters hp. The fact that hp are so tied seems to suggest a two way connection

 

 

The Familiars' level up and skill development is associated to either the Thief, the Fighter class or the Mage class (with an exception for the Faerie Dragon which benefits of the Druid/Mage table for saving throws) because the creatures' natural abilities and tendencies are closest to one of those classes. The only common ground I had for them is the Hit Points that is the same for all. 

 

Practically each aspect of this modification has solid PnP roots with very few exceptions (the spider's poison resistance, some resistances improving with level instead of being absolute from the very beginning or the alignment of the Rabbit - it's all that comes to mind) so that the level up system is not really arbitrary but carefully planned out.

 

I will just have to get some feedback from players and see if there can be improvements to be made.


Edited by Salk, 23 January 2015 - 06:01 AM.


#39 Shaitan

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 05:58 AM

Hi Salk

 

Why isn't it usable with EasyTutu?

 

Cheers


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#40 Salk

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:20 AM

Hi Shaitan.

 

Because I didn't provide for additional code for EasyTuTu compatibility. With my very limited modding knowledge, I had to dedicate all the efforts into making it 100% BGT compatible.

 

If anyone wants to help to make it compatible with EasyTuTu, I'd like the help. Otherwise I will eventually probably learn how to do it myself (maybe)...


Edited by Salk, 05 February 2015 - 08:46 AM.


#41 Shaitan

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 08:17 AM

Ok, thay sound very understandable :)


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#42 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 08:49 AM

Because I didn't provide for additional code for EasyTuTu compatibility. With my very limited modding knowledge, I had to dedicate all the efforts into making it 100% BGT compatible.

 

If anyone wants to help to make it compatible with EasyTuTu, I'd like the help.

Just tell us what exact knowledge do you need ? Erhm, it's likely the same knowledge you needed from the BG2 to BGT cross over ...

Or testers, code assistance...

 

Ouh, and have to ask, was Rabain ever knows as "Chevar", cause that's his prefix(WT*) that nearly all the mod files have and it's extremely bad for compatibility if it's not the case.


Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 05 February 2015 - 09:03 AM.

Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#43 Salk

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 09:48 AM

Just tell us what exact knowledge do you need ? Erhm, it's likely the same knowledge you needed from the BG2 to BGT cross over ...

Or testers, code assistance...

 

Ouh, and have to ask, was Rabain ever knows as "Chevar", cause that's his prefix(WT*) that nearly all the mod files have and it's extremely bad for compatibility if it's not the case.

 

 

I'll get around to make it EasyTuTu compatible... I'll probably just need to convert some areas and change a few things in the .d files... Shouldn't be too hard...

 

And no, WT is not Rabain's prefix (it's BK)...


Edited by Salk, 05 February 2015 - 09:48 AM.


#44 Mad Mate

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 12:19 PM

Great mod, Salk!
Just found some bug that leads to CTD.
It happens only in TOB.

It is easy to reproduce.

Start TOB, Cast FF, then choose familiar (any one), CTD with:

ASSERTION FAILED! Return Address: 0x8BA209 File: ObjCreature.cpp Line: 12162 Expression: pCreature != NULL && creatureSize > 0 Message: (null)

In BG1 part of BGT spell works fine and in BG2 I couldn't test it (spell fails indoors).

Using clean BGT (weidu.log):

Spoiler

Edited by Mad Mate, 22 March 2015 - 12:19 PM.


#45 Salk

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 10:34 PM

Oh thanks for reporting it... I had tried the spell at the beginning of ToB (BGT) and it didn't crash... 

 

I'll try and see if I can find the problem.





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