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#16 Fruits of the sea

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 08:25 AM

I've never used the Cat and Mouse component, it always seemed a step too far. I like the idea behind it though!

 

Anyways, I'm not saying vampires aren't overpowered, just pondering why. The reason, I think, is level drain being tied to melee attacks.

 

What is means 4 APR combat gods ?

I was referring to what Ahrimal said in the first post in this thread. APR= Attacks per round. Vampires are amazing fighters!


Edited by Fruits of the sea, 01 February 2017 - 08:28 AM.


#17 frostysh

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 09:16 AM

Long range Level Drain - wow, it is looks too hard :D. Thanx for explanation about apr. Yes, vampires is annoying in close combat, but Bodhi is super-annoying :) .
"The monstrous evils of the twentieth century have shown us that the greediest money grubbers are gentle doves compared with money-hating wolves like Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler, who in less than three decades killed or maimed nearly a hundred million men, women, and children and brought untold suffering to a large portion of mankind."
- Eric Hoffer

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
- Albert Einstein

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg

#18 scorpio

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:23 AM

Just looking for some gameplay advice on combating vampires, or just plain surviving.

 

I'm playing a minimal reload run (well, tried no-reload but I'm not going to restart! BG2 isn't exactly XCOM or something, I cannot be bothered going through the same dialogues again just to try no-reload again and again!). I play to the spirit of this pretty adherently and never give up till that death screen, and will literally go until the main character dies - I've come out of some sticky situations where only 1 or 2 characters have lived via invis and rescued the equipment of others. So far only 2 reloads, one was the death tyrant by an insta death spell to PC, and the other was...Twisted Rune ('nuff said on that...I've never faced this, and yeah...with SCS...).

 

I'm now coming across roaming bands of vampires via random encounters as you travel between districts in Athkatla. During daytime it's pitiful thieves and mages that run away because the party is too powerful.

 

At night it's a different story: Ancient and Elder vampires I believe, amongst others, move around and ambush my party. I was taken apart on the first ambush, as mind-control took away a character and then soon enough the party was wiped out, all but a couple members. I had the survivors carry all the equipment and ressurected the rest.

 

These vampires that are just random encounters are all set to cause me potentially more reloads, which I want to minimise - that is my challenge to myself.

 

Since then, I've prepared mass invisibility, and all sorts of other invis contingency plans to run. Bear in mind I am literally running for my life, not trying to fight. This itself can go badly, as you have a split second to invis everyone before someone is charmed and you wait it out in a dangerous situation. I've faced these 2 more times since and got away with invis, sometimes quaffing potions as you see the charm being cast in the combat log and know its too late, so I invis via these limited supply potions!

 

I tried fighting with one character uber buffed, level drain immunity and protection from charm/domination. However I believe there is something that overrides even this? Mesmerise? What counter is there to that?

 

Also, ability drain, is it constitution I think? Again, any counter? I could fight with a lone character but ability drain itself destroys a character with no counter I know of.

 

So, any advice is welcome on fighting/escaping.

 

Just to be clear I love the challenge here, I've had some amazing fights, and the best was a running battle with Torgal and his troupe, lost 4 out of 6 party members by the end, and had to use every resource at my disposal, and literally ran back to the starting room on that floor, and through the corridors where you lead the umber hulks and had a pitched battle like I've never experienced. Amazing gameplay.



#19 kreso

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:54 AM

However I believe there is something that overrides even this? Mesmerise? What counter is there to that?

 

Also, ability drain, is it constitution I think? Again, any counter? I could fight with a lone character but ability drain itself destroys a character with no counter I know of.

Chaotic Commands should keep you safe from Mesmerize; as should rage abilities.

CON drain can only be avoided by not getting hit in the first place, so low AC (Full plate + Imp.Invis + Girdle of Piercing + Pro Evil) makes vamps hit pretty much only on a critical hit. 

Apart those that cast spells, they can't do anything vs Pro Undead scroll or invisibility.



#20 frostysh

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:03 AM

@scorpio

imho - bg2 is not a game where a good idea to play without a reloads - because this is a very long game especially if you are trying to complete all possible plots, quests, and explore every corner of the virtual world. This is truly different game even from a "Witcher 2" where on maximum difficulty set - no reloads available.
Minimum reloads - it is much the same as many reloads.

Some tips, (my tips may be useful only on the max possible difficulty with SCS max. diff too), well actually the pretty same as user kreso said:

1. Clear the location before the fight with a strong enemy, for an example - do not rush in the city at night! Stay your party close together and ready to spread and to escape (fighters in front!). But beware the attacks from the behind - in this case you must kill weak enemies, or bait them for another char, before they will get your mages/healers!

2. Make a plan - where you will hide, where you will run your chars, where the healers will be, etc...

3. Vampires is a weak enemies, a very weak enemies, but the one single example - B.. :( . To kill Vampire, equip any "anti-undeead +large number range weapon" Such as throwing axe +3, and bait vampire by the another char that is protected by NPP! Protection from Evil, etc.

4. Pray on Holy random 20-sided dice :D

5. Some AoE spell may be very useful in the case of "clearing room" from a weak undeads, that is mostly came with vampires.

6. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, sometime may be a very useful too. In the worst case - Stop Time :) .

7. Be careful with Undead Archers equipped with Fire and Ice arrows! - Your primary target.

8. You must have a fast char, such as monk or boots - Paws of Chetaeh. This will minimize your amount of reloads.
"The monstrous evils of the twentieth century have shown us that the greediest money grubbers are gentle doves compared with money-hating wolves like Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler, who in less than three decades killed or maimed nearly a hundred million men, women, and children and brought untold suffering to a large portion of mankind."
- Eric Hoffer

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
- Albert Einstein

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg

#21 scorpio

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:57 AM

Thank you both for the advice. Good to know about chaotic commands kreso. I figured ability drain did indeed have no counter.

 

Frostysh, likewise thanks. I am no newbie however, and have played the game many times, I know the story and dialogues inside out. I like to play for the tactical challenge these days, whilst still going through the amazing story even though I know all the ins and out, as it provides the motivation as I see it.

 

Twisted Rune was one thing I had not faced however, although I knew it was a high level encounter, and actually stumbled into it by mistake since I did not know the exact location.

 

I have to disagree on the "Minimum reloads - it is much the same as many reloads." It is plainly not, but I won't argue it, we can just disagree on that matter.

 

Vampires are not weak when my party level is between 11 and 12 on average (Yoshimo sitting at 14 but that's thief levels for you...quick and lots of levels compared to other classes).

Especially because the encounters are not on my terms, it is those "you have been ambushed and must defend yourselves" in the small spaces, and when 5-8 vampires are spawned right top of your party, you have little time or space to do anything. Hence the consternation on how to deal with this situation.

 

Nevertheless, thanks again, but wanted to clarify a couple points. Appreciate the help.


Edited by scorpio, 18 February 2017 - 05:59 AM.


#22 frostysh

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:00 PM

@scorpio Vampires a very weak, comparing to the some other enemies. If you have faced vampire ambush - it is much more easier to win a battle, than if you faced ambush with a mage + archer + healer + fighters... Against vampires tactic is very simple "bait them" by a one or two chars. What a problem of that lol? Some difficulties only will be if vampires will came not alone - with a low level undeads but in the large numbers. ... Only single difficult vampire in the game *SPOILER* - Bodhi, with the above mentioned difficulty and configuration, she will hunt your party inside of the Labyrinth, and she will be immortal, and your party cannot rest - this is difficult indeed. All other vampire encounters - is the easy peaceful walking trough a green park avenue, comparing for an example with an encounters of Demilich :p or a Summoner or a Dragon (yeah baby!)... . I played many RPG on max difficulty settings, some of this difficulty sets means "one death = game over": Torchlight, Witcher 2, Sacred 2, etc. And I will say - the small amount of downloads = a large amount of downloads, I see no crucial difference there. And this is truly not for a BG series! BG have a large world, and complicated battle system, I liked to explore any corner of this world, and I see no way how you can connect to such long journey "one death = game over" option, it is just a stupid IMHO :) . What is mean "Twisted Rune" ?
"The monstrous evils of the twentieth century have shown us that the greediest money grubbers are gentle doves compared with money-hating wolves like Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler, who in less than three decades killed or maimed nearly a hundred million men, women, and children and brought untold suffering to a large portion of mankind."
- Eric Hoffer

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
- Albert Einstein

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg

#23 Fruits of the sea

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:21 AM

I prefer to re-load as little as possible too. I must confess that my party prefers to fast-travel with invisibility pre-cast, at least at night, after the first couple of ambushes. Yes, it's cheap but considering how ridiculously often the Bhaalspawn is ambushed/kidnapped/halted, it is also the rational thing to do.

 

Also, spell triggers, contingencies, and more spell triggers.

 

 

What is mean "Twisted Rune" ?

 

It's a secret fight - and famous for being one of the hardest fights in BG2 (but not ToB). You may need to google it, it's difficult to find the Twisted Rune without at least a hint.


Edited by Fruits of the sea, 23 February 2017 - 08:23 AM.


#24 frostysh

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 04:13 PM

Whahha - No, they are not hard to find in BG2:EE, at least for a gameplay (about symbolism of that - I just don't give a ... about mythology.). I have fully explored the any location, every cave, every house, every corner. every barrel, and so on... so I have easily found those guys. - Indeed they are VERY tough, especially those frigging summoner with "Staff of the Magi". but the Dragon is more dangerous on a configuration that I have played.
Imho - the hardest fight that my party have faced - was the fight against the really fearsome enemy - Aec-Latex & Co in BG1, much more harder than anything that ma party have faced before and after.

Edited by frostysh, 23 February 2017 - 04:16 PM.

"The monstrous evils of the twentieth century have shown us that the greediest money grubbers are gentle doves compared with money-hating wolves like Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler, who in less than three decades killed or maimed nearly a hundred million men, women, and children and brought untold suffering to a large portion of mankind."
- Eric Hoffer

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
- Albert Einstein

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg

#25 Vlan

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 10:42 AM

From a RP (not powergaming) perspective, Vampires are truly a nightmare.

 

Especially the first time you're raiding Bodhi's guild with an average party of 11-12's, and don't rest after every encounter.

 

I most times get completely stuck at Tanova, respectively drain most of my spells and other things at this encounter, and have nothing left against Bodhi and her minions.

 

I do hate Vampires. Uhrgs...



#26 frostysh

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 11:07 PM

Tanova, Bodhi's Guild, don't remember... is this the underground necropolis with a sarcophagus, vampires and stuff? - Just clean up the space, and if you will face a dangerous enemy - fall back to the clear rooms, and make the ambush there, of course the NPP spell, Protection from Evil and so on, the bottles, the scrolls, the ammo for a marksmen and of course the +3 Throwing Axe against undead guys, etc, etc, is required. Much more difficult will be when all your item picked off from your party and you must fight against a truly powerful vampire :p
"The monstrous evils of the twentieth century have shown us that the greediest money grubbers are gentle doves compared with money-hating wolves like Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler, who in less than three decades killed or maimed nearly a hundred million men, women, and children and brought untold suffering to a large portion of mankind."
- Eric Hoffer

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
- Albert Einstein

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg



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