Jump to content

Photo

monk's APR

monk apr tob bg2ee

32 replies to this topic

#1 critto

critto
  • Modders
  • 198 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2015 - 02:06 AM

Hi, everybody.

 

I've spent a good part of the day trying to figure out how monk's APR progression works but was unsuccessful so far. I've checked out the mods that tweak the monk class but so far only understood how the fists' damage and enchantment progresses (hard-coded into exe in vanilla vs. proper 2da table in BG2EE).

 

Could somebody please clarify the bit about the APR for me? Much appreciated, thank you.

 

For instance, the Sword and Fist mod states that it changes the APR progression, but for the love of me I can't figure out how.

 

Best regards,

critto



#2 lynx

lynx
  • Modders
  • 3144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ljubljana, Slovenija

Posted 11 May 2015 - 02:40 AM

It was also hardcoded. You can see the progression in our unhardcoded table that bgee then adopted at least partly:
http://code.openhub....elected=true#L0

GemRB - IE anywhere.
Mages needed! Looking for Planescape: Torment testers
Play android version IS NOT SUPPORTED ANYMORE: reported bugs will be ignored! Still looking for builders ...


#3 critto

critto
  • Modders
  • 198 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2015 - 10:46 AM

I see. Am I right to understand that by "partly adopted" you mean that in EE they transferred AC progression into CLABMO*.2da?

 

I have the following questions, then:

 

1) is it possible to change AC progression in vanilla ToB somehow?

2) is it possible to change APR progression at all either in ToB or BG2EE?

3) How does Sword and Fist mod achieve both changes? AC is probably done by editing the 2da for abilities, but what about the APR?

 

Thank you in advance.



#4 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6829 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 11 May 2015 - 10:52 AM

1) 2) 3)...

1) You can set the APR with while equipped item effect in the mfistx.itm's where the x is 1 to 8.

2)The EE at least has the AC progression tied to the spell that the clab file applies at each upgrade level, not that it's actually needed as the level 1 spell that applies it, can actually do it without it being repeated at each upgrade level ... as it's also has the levels upgrade in itself tied to the caster level.

3) I can't see APR change in anywhere in S&F, but ... there's an effect sets the items speed factor while equipped, which is totally different stat than the APR ...


Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 11 May 2015 - 11:10 AM.

Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#5 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2851 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:01 AM

Yeah I'm unclear about what it means that APR is hardcoded. Does it apply when they use weapons? Or just fists? If the latter, is it a garden-variety chatacteristic of the mfist.itm files (and thus changeable by simply editing the item files), or is it truly hardcoded?

Even if the latter, shouldn't you be able to override it by tacking a "set APR while equipped" effect on to the fist items? (I think that's what my mod does, but to be honest I haven't rigorously tested it.)

Edited by subtledoctor, 11 May 2015 - 11:01 AM.

Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#6 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6829 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:33 AM

Yeah I'm unclear about what it means that APR is hardcoded. Does it apply when they use weapons? Or just fists? If the latter, is it a garden-variety chatacteristic of the mfist.itm files (and thus changeable by simply editing the item files), or is it truly hardcoded?

 

Even..

I have no idea how it's applied... but it seems hardcoded, and you can fix it with with adding the effect, as there's not one on the file yet. So yeah.


Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#7 critto

critto
  • Modders
  • 198 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:52 AM

2 Jarno:

 

1) You can set the APR with while equipped item effect in the mfistx.itm's where the x is 1 to 8.

I guess you're right. Either that or make abilities that are granted to the class via CLAB 2da.

 

2) ...

You're right about the spell not being needed more than once, I've missed that somehow. I don't have the vanilla installation available right now, only BG2EE. The spell file that modifies the AC, SPCL822, does it exist in the original ToB?

 

3) I can't see APR change in anywhere in S&F, but ... there's an effect sets the items speed factor while equipped, which is totally different stat than the APR ...

My point exactly. Oh well, I guess there's no choice but to do it through the mfist files or abilities.



#8 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6829 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:12 PM

I don't have the vanilla installation available right now, only BG2EE. The spell file that modifies the AC, SPCL822, does it exist in the original ToB?

I do, and no it doesn't exist in the original game.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 11 May 2015 - 12:13 PM.

Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#9 critto

critto
  • Modders
  • 198 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2015 - 06:53 PM

OK thanks. I guess it is hardcoded indeed in vanilla ToB and follows the progression described in GemRB's 2da file provided by lynx.



#10 lynx

lynx
  • Modders
  • 3144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ljubljana, Slovenija

Posted 12 May 2015 - 12:38 AM

Yes, it's hardcoded. Perhaps the hack is applied nicely enough that the effect approach would work, but there are no guarantees.

GemRB - IE anywhere.
Mages needed! Looking for Planescape: Torment testers
Play android version IS NOT SUPPORTED ANYMORE: reported bugs will be ignored! Still looking for builders ...


#11 critto

critto
  • Modders
  • 198 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 May 2015 - 11:42 AM

Continuing my inquiries into the game's weapon system.

 

Is there a way to modify amount of points invested into weapon proficiencies for an existing kit at the beginning of the game (for instance, a ranger gets two points in dual-wielding, that sort of a thing)? Or any way to do so for a new kit?

 

What role do files clswpbon.2da and clasthac.2da play exactly?

 

Is there a way to modify levels at which a character gains a proficiency point? Or is it hard-coded into the engine for all classes? I found profs.2da, but I am not sure I understand it correctly. For instance, according to the file, a druid should get 2 stars at 1st level and 1 star each 4 levels. According to this logic, a druid should have 3 stars in SoA during character generation, yet he gains 4. Am I wrong?

 

best regards



#12 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2851 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 May 2015 - 12:11 PM

The ranger thing is hard-coded.  You can *SET* various weapon proficiencies at level one, via a spell in the CLAB file, but doing so will override the player's choices.  So, for instance, let's say you want to give fighters a free pip in Single-Weapon Style.  Now,

- Scenario 1: player puts all starting pips into various weapons. Upon starting the game, they have an extra pip in SWS!  Yay!

- Scenario 2: player puts one pip into SWS and the rest into weapons. Upon starting the game, they gets exactly what they chose - which is one fewer pip than the player in scenario 1.  :(

- Scenario 3: player puts 2 pips into SWS. Upon starting the game, they both get overridden and the player only ends up with one pip in SWS (and two fewer pips in total than the plasyer in scenario 1).

 

Trying to work around those issues is a nightmare.  I set up a whole system that does so in my mod, put a ton of time into it, and long story short, I'm scrapping it in the next release.

 

You understand PROFS.2da correctly.  I can't explain what you're seeing with druids, but don't they start SOA at level 8?  Which would mean 4 pips total to spend.

 

CLSWPBON.2da (which is EE-only): the 1st column determines which classes get the APR bonuses from weapon specialization, i.e. which classes are affected by WSPATCK.2da.  I have no idea what the 2nd column does.  The 3rd column determines how large your thac0 penalty is if you wield a weapon you are not proficient in.

 

I've never looked at CLASTHAC.2da.


Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE


#13 Jarno Mikkola

Jarno Mikkola

    The Imp

  • Modders
  • 6829 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The town where the dead haven't keeled over, yet. In Finland.

Posted 16 May 2015 - 12:33 PM

Trying to work around those issues is a nightmare.

Try this: Set the prof max amount to zero pips for this kit, and add the pips to the proficiency via effect(and thell that to the player in the kit description). All your troubles are over. :p Well with kit to kit hot jumping and all that.
You can also set the player to a happy surprise by giving their fighter kit the choice to only place pips to a random weapon, and then filling in the rest. It works even if there's less than the total amount they can place at level 1(which usually is 4).

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 16 May 2015 - 12:35 PM.

Welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand.
Here's how to install all the ... mods you ever really could want to Infinity Engine games. I removed the stable word from there as Roxanne began to add BS mods that are likely to break compatibility from the BWS.

#14 critto

critto
  • Modders
  • 198 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 May 2015 - 12:39 PM

Thanks for the answers.

 

 

 

You understand PROFS.2da correctly.  I can't explain what you're seeing with druids, but don't they start SOA at level 8?  Which would mean 4 pips total to spend.

Yes, you are right. I wrote about level 7 from memory, but druids have a different level progression table, with the fast climb to level 13 and then a long wait for level 14. Still, the problem is that the rate of acquiring prof. points is defined at a class level, not for a specific kit.

 

 

CLSWPBON.2da (which is EE-only):

 

Any work-arounds for BG2:ToB (exe patches, etc.)?

 

 

 

Try this: Set the prof max amount to zero pips for this kit, and add the pips to the proficiency via effect(and thell that to the player in the kit description). All your troubles are over.

That's a nice work-around.


Edited by critto, 16 May 2015 - 12:39 PM.


#15 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modders
  • 2851 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 May 2015 - 01:03 PM


CLSWPBON.2da (which is EE-only):

 

Any work-arounds for BG2:ToB (exe patches, etc.)?

 

Yes, you can install the "WSPATCK For All" component of the_bigg's Tweaks (TB#Tweaks) mod.

 

Try this: Set the prof max amount to zero pips for this kit, and add the pips to the proficiency via effect(and thell that to the player in the kit description). All your troubles are over.

That's a nice work-around.

 

Oh ho, you might think so.  But that is just the beginning of the nightmare.

 

However, for the very limited purpose of something like weapon styles, this can work.  My Bladesinger kit is unable to allocate any pips to SWS; instead, he starts with 1 pip and automatically advances to two pips at level 7.  But, you cannot mix-and-match free pips with player choice.  If you take away access to x proficiency from a kit for purposes of granting them at 1st level, then you can never allow any advancement in that proficiency later on.


Faiths & Powers: Spell spheres and kit pack for priests and paladins
Might & Guile: Tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues
Scales of Balance: Game tweaks and rule overhauls
NPC_EE: More options for NPCs in BGEE, SoD, & BG2EE




Reply to this topic



  



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: monk, apr, tob, bg2ee

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users