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IWD2 story changes discussion


K4thos

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For now the goal is to bring whole IWD2 into EE engine, but once that is done some changes to the story will have to be made in order to fit it into the context of IWD1 that is already fully implemented in IWD-in-EET. This topic contains unmarked IWD2 spoilers, so leave it now if you didn't play the game yet.

For those who didn't follow the other topic here is an explanation how the party will get into IWD1 and 2 areas.

 

The game begins as the player's group of mercenaries arrives by ship to defend Targos. They report to the town palisade and fend off an assault by the goblin army. Afterwards, the mayor of Targos orders them to start an offensive on the goblin army. The group kills the chieftain of the army, and discovers that he was under the command of a woman named Sherincal.

In IWD2 above content takes place on the first of 3 worldmaps. Nothing major has to be changed here for IWD-in-EET. Our party arrieves at Targos, resolves the local problems and is referenced as heros by local folks once the job is done. So a quest similar to BG2 Trademeet optional story.

 

When they return to Targos, the mayor asks them to rendezvous with reinforcements from Neverwinter. The group travels to meet them in an airship piloted by Oswald Fiddlebender.

First true conceptual conflict between IWD1 and IWD2. Oswald Fiddlebender should not be present in Targos at that time - his ship supposed to be damaged and he should still live in Kuldahar at that point. Something has to be done about it. My ideas:

1. Replace him with some other NPC.

2. Implement some new quest for Oswald Fiddlebender to repair his ship and invite him to Targos.

3. Remove the airship travel alltogether and simply travel to glacier by foot via worldmap

 

A storm causes the ship to crash, and the group awakens to discover that a glacier blocks the reinforcements' path. While investigating the glacier, the group finds Sherincal, a half-dragon, guarding the entrance to an Aurilite temple. They learn that Sherincal leads the Legion of the Chimera's western forces, and that the leaders of the Legion of the Chimera, cambion twins named Isair and Madae, reside in the Severed Hand. Inside the Aurilite temple, the group finds a prisoner from Kuldahar, who asks them to warn Kuldahar of the threat posed by the Legion of the Chimera. After this, the group creates a passage through the glacier, and meets with the reinforcements.

At this point IWD2 is moved to second worldmap in vanilla game. Again I see few ways to handle this content:

1. Considering that the airship is broken we could simply prevent travelling back to old areas at that point and continue IWD2 story as it is - the party is trying to get into Kuldahar and must progress via linear IWD2 path due to no other option.

2. Remove that prisoner from Kuldahar conversation altogether and from now on open all other IWD2 areas that are not present in IWD1 via worldmap travels. There are quite a few interesting places to visit with some side quests to do (The Wandering Village, Black Raven Monastery, confusing wood etc.)

 

As the group travels to Kuldahar, they meet a drow (dark elf) named Nym, who tells them that the pass to Kuldahar is guarded by the Legion of the Chimera, and that an alternate path through the Underdark exists. Later, Isair and Madae locate the group with information from Nym. They state their intention to attack Kuldahar, and warn the group to not interfere. The group then passes through the Black Raven Monastery to enter the Underdark. After exiting the Underdark, they are flown to Kuldahar by Oswald Fiddlebender.

Depending on which implementation we decide on the story could either follow the usual path or we could leave travelling to the Underark as a side story quest in Black Raven Monastery.

 

When the group lands in Kuldahar, they discover it has been invaded by the Legion of the Chimera. They meet the Archdruid of Kuldahar, who tells them that a portal has been opened to allow yuan-ti from the Jungles of Chult to assault Kuldahar. After the group prevents the attack, the Archdruid tells them that they may reach the Severed Hand through an exit at the bottom floor of the Dragon's Eye. The group travels through Dragon's Eye, and proceeds to the Severed Hand. Once inside, they learn that the war between the Ten Towns and the Legion of the Chimera was caused by the mayor of Bryn Shander, who had sent Isair and Madae poisoned food. They also discover that a mythal that was cast on the Severed Hand has been corrupted, and the structure will be transported to the plane of limbo. Eventually, the group finds Isair and Madae, and kills them.

Third IWD2 worldmap content. Now we have some serious problems because pretty much everything here conflicts with IWD1. In IWD2 we meet characters that were children but are now adults, there are reference to past events, changes in old area graphics and content (Kuldahar, Kuldahar Pass, Dragon's Eye, Severed Hand). It's no longer a matter of replacing a line or name here and there. Last 2 chapters would require rewriting whole dialogues and other changes to fit them into the context of IWD1 presence, without using silly tricks like time travels etc.

 

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First public version will have whole first IWD2 worldmap content (and of course whole IWD1+HoF+TotLM). How the later IWD2 chapters will be implemented is unknown at this point. Maybe some brainstorming here will help shaping up the vision for it. All feedback and ideas are welcomed.

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3. Remove the airship travel alltogether and simply travel to glacier by foot via worldmap

Seems easiest, and for purposes of this project, totally satisfactory. IMHO.

 

2. Remove that prisoner from Kuldahar conversation altogether and from now on open all other IWD2 areas that are not present in IWD1 via worldmap travels. There are quite a few interesting places to visit with some side quests to do (The Wandering Village, Black Raven Monastery, confusing wood etc.)

Again, for purposes of this project, seems fine to me. Sounds like the whole third act of the game will have to be left out until some modder(s) do a LOT of work on it... so, just doing this much sounds great to me.

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I have to admit that my memory of the iwd, and especially the iwd2 plot is a bit... nonexistent.

 

That said, I have no problem being spoiled, and I want to help. Would it too much to ask for a list of the conflicts? Even if I play through both games--not enough time atm--i would probably miss a number of them.

 

Npcs that are grown up might be replaced by relatives of those npcs perhaps(?)

 

Changes to specific areas: maybe they can just be different areas, at least where there is too much of a change (?)

 

As for the airship,

...

 

When they return to Targos, the mayor asks them to rendezvous with reinforcements from Neverwinter. The group travels to meet them in an airship piloted by Oswald Fiddlebender.

First true conceptual conflict between IWD1 and IWD2. Oswald Fiddlebender should not be present in Targos at that time - his ship supposed to be damaged and he should still live in Kuldahar at that point. Something has to be done about it. My ideas:

1. Replace him with some other NPC.

2. Implement some new quest for Oswald Fiddlebender to repair his ship and invite him to Targos.

3. Remove the airship travel alltogether and simply travel to glacier by foot via worldmap

 

...

1 or 3 seem like the simplest solutions.

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(post from another thread:)

 

If IWD2 Kuldahar is used, what happens to IWD1 Kuldahar?

it's the other way around - IWD1 is used, IWD2 is redudant. Implementing story content from last IWD2 chapters (which is releated to visting areas that also exists in IWD1 and speaking to older version of NPCs present in IWD1) wouldn't make sense in the context.

 

Admittedly not very much happens in the IWD1 Kuldahar. It's mostly "The map with Arundel's hut"

Maybe migrating important IWD1 Kuldahar content to AR6000 is an option? (important content = interactions connected to the main IWD story and store wares)

Could you elaborate more on this? Not sure if I understand you correctly. At which point should the IWD2 version of Kuldahar Pass replace IWD1 one? Logically it would be after the end of IWD1 main compaign (notice that there is no longer snow there). edit: topic for such discussion has been created here.

 

 

I'm sorry, my memory of IWD2 too fuzzy. I wanted to suggest that the IWD2 map with the invasion happening is used when you first reach Kuldahar in EET. You clear the invasion and then the city works mostly like the IWD1 Kuldahar (by manually moving some or all characters there and doing some edits for the sake of consistency), but the IWD2 map is used. The new Arch-druid is actually the old Arch-druid (their function in the story is merged) and only then IWD1 really gets going. This preserves necessary story elements for both game's storylines. But it's a pretty confused idea...

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I've beaten every infinity engine game 3 or more times except IWD2 which I've never beaten once (I've tried several times, run out of steam around Kuldahar) so my knowledge of the story in that one is definitely shaky. But I think up until the third chapter, you're best just removing references to IWD1 and not worry about replacements. If someone whose never played IWD2 doesn't notice there's something missing there, then you're golden. I know that I personally won't be too broken up over Oswald and some Kuldahar villager being removed.

 

Act 3 sounds like a damn daunting task, but mostly one that is a matter of just brute forcing your way through the script to change anything that references the first game. It's something I'd maybe be interested in doing after I finish up the IWD1 content but I definitely can't commit to anything yet.

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What if the airship works (IWD2) and is then damaged (IWD). The mod could introduce the gnome and then something happens and now it needs repair to preserve the IWD1 state.

 

Perhaps there's an ability to repair it via quest and the party can take advantage via worldmap travel with it.

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This BG-IWD merger sounds so exciting! Thank you very much modders for putting in the time for such a project. I have a few story ideas I hope are helpful.

 

Concerning how IWD2’s Act 3 might be implemented.

 

Consider if IWD1 is completed up to the Severed Hand during BG1, then Act 3 of IWD2 should become available in ToB. Story and pacing wise, with SoD and SoA stuck in the middle, it would *feel* like a long time has passed, which I believe is more important than the story just telling you “x number of years have passed.” For example, when I consider the map changes, like the graveyard added to what is now Hrothgar’s Vale and volcano erupting and cooling in Dragon’s Eye, I find it reasonable that those changes can be made while you are off chasing Caelar Argent, having an indefinite stay at Chateau Irenicus, gathering coin in Athkatla, potentially running a castle, playhouse…or a thieves guild, venturing into the underdark, saving Suldanessellar …..I find the IWD map changes all reasonable given that amount of time.

 

As a matter of fact, considering that the story says that 30 years have passed between IWD 1 and 2, it feels like far too little has changed in that long of a time. (Like the Ice Temple Aurilites are sooooooo steaming mad that their BFF Lysan was killed……that they apparently will be doing nothing about it about it for thirty years?!? And then when it comes time to finally act against Kuldahar…..they are content to guard the western pass while warmth-loving yuan-ti do all the actual Kuldahar sieging? Then these *wise* priestesses are confident that they will get the heartstone gem over the yuan-ti after their guard duty ends? Uh huh.) Anyway, so story wise, I would remove the whole 30 years have passed, for I feel this issue can be safety changed to more vague, general phrases like “a lot has happened since last you were here last, this ‘Legion of the Chimera’ has risen up in power and now their yuan-ti allies are attacking Kuldahar!...” For the children that are now adults like Jermsy, I have an easier time believing he hit puberty, got taller, and is now a bitter guard in between the events of BG1 and ToB. Actually, making Jermsy older in IWD1 might be more ideal, such if he was an able-bodied teenager hiding in a closet, frozen with fear, while he heard his family being murdered upstairs by orcs; that would make for a more compelling guilt-ridden character in IWD2.

 

Pacing wise, I personally feel ToB’s leveling is a bit too fast. So having IWD2's Act 3, which has some brutal battles and enemies, available during ToB would give some high level content to help slow down the overall leveling and TOB linearity.

 

Now to address the issue of how to implement Isair and Madae (I&M). Another reason I propose all that needs to be finished in BG1 is the Severed Hand for IWD Act3 to trigger in ToB is because I feel that the Belhifet’s connection to I&M should be removed. To me, if they must be the children of a major enemy of IWD1, it makes more sense that they are Yxunomei’s children. The IWD2 story already said that the yuan-ti were impregnating the Kuldahar captives, so it seems reasonable that Yxunomei could have gotten in on that action. Perhaps Yxunomei could have taken a male form and knocked-up Mother Egenia (removing the connection of I&M’s mother being in Belhifet’s army), Mother Egenia was indeed a captive in Dragon’s Eye, and she ended up being I&M’s foster mother, so it wouldn’t be a big change to just make her their real mother. Lore wise, I&M being connected to Yxunomei makes more sense seeing that the yuan-ti became their ally. It just feels awkward that anyone having anything to do with the chaotic evil demon Yxunomei would have any alliances or positive relationships with the kin of the lawful evil Baatezu Belhifet, the “ancient enemy” of Yxunomei’s.

 

Another thing to consider is if I&M are connected to Yxunomei over Belhifet, and if the other parent could be someone else, never specified, or just someone who got cooked up for babies’ first meal; then this also opens up the possibility of I&M being as old as needed, for who knows how long Yxunomei was in the neighborhood before all that IWD1 ruckus started?

Hells, in just considering how the character models look, I&M’s weird arm-like-wing-things make them appear more likely to be the offspring of the multi-armed Yxunomei rather than the no wing having, only two armed wielding Belhifet!

 

I have two ideas of when IWD2 Act 3 might start.

 

First is having Oswald flying around, like in Saradush and/or Amkethran, looking either for you specifically or for anyone willing to be flown up to Kuldahar to help out with the imminent threat of the Legion of the Chimera. Oswald can then fly you up to where IWD2’s chapter 5 begins, in the area west of Kuldahar.

 

A second way is to use the divinity of Lord Pyros, the fire elemental in charge of Fire Town, the new bottom level of Dragon’s Eye. Lord Pyros is caught in a temporal loop where he is assassinated by a LoC yuan-ti ambassador. This led to a war where the LoC yuan-ti wiped out Fire Town. Considering that Lord Pyros was personally created by the god Kossuth, I can see Kossuth wanting to contact you—the slayer of Yxunomei—to conduct an investigation of the LoC, to enact revenge against the LoC, or to fix whatever temporal loop currently plagues Fire Town which would then tie your story into the LoC’s. As you have a divine stronghold yourself in ToB, Kossuth could just send an emissary there who offers you the quest that launches Act 3. Then you can use your stronghold’s teleporter to put you where fate decides is ideal to help Kossuth, such as by Oswald in the area west of Kuldahar where he can update you on the current LoC related attacks on Kuldahar, etc.

 

Another thing to entertain when considering the Lord Pyros angle to launch some or all of IWD2 is that this would make using time travel less awkward as a temporal disturbance is already part of that main story line.

 

Now for a different topic, I would like to throw an idea out there dealing with the several times you are referred to as a group from Luskin during IWD2. Firstly, suppose the person--perhaps either Captain Hedron Kerdos by sea or Oswald by air—who will be first bringing you to Targos picks you up from the Baldur’s Gate main gate area, either outside for early access or inside for later access, making you the group from Baldur’s Gate. Now the person transporting you tells you that on the way to Targos, we need to stop by Luskin to pick up any mercenaries there too, and that is how both you and Black Geoffrey’s Iron Collar band arrived at the same time, on the same ship. Now what I feel would help explain the potential confusion of either some of the written or voiced dialog that will be calling you the group from Luskin is to set up a running gag where you are regularly confused with the Iron Collar Band.

 

Here are some examples. A few times people could just overtly call you “Black Geoffrey” (or if you play as a lady, perhaps Black Gennifer or Black Ginger). Such as, “Ah, it’s good that you’re hear, Black Geoffrey, are you interested in our healing services?” A more subtle instance of this confusion can be due to the Iron Collar Band having only three members, and if your group has a different number, someone, like the inn keeper, could casually say, “Ah, I thought there were only three of you? No matter, there’s this ghost upstairs…..” And right before the main battle in the Palisades, Shawford Crale, who is thankfully not voiced, can ask you to “go get those lazy mercenaries from Baldur’s Gate hanging out at the Salty Dog Tavern…..” And if technically possible, perhaps the character model of Black Geoffrey (or Gennifer) can be made to look exactly like yours. Anyway, how you respond to these reoccurring confusions can vary, but that this confusion keeps happening helps set up how you might accidentally be called "the group from Luskin" in the future, such as in the unchangeable voiced dialog.

 

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